Drummond M Headstock and Bed

[James Jenkins 1Participant @jamesjenkins1]

How far would you go in stripping down the headstock on a Drummond M lathe? I am aiming to give the whole lathe a clean and refit, but wonder if opening this up might be a can or worms?

Also, what can I use to clean the bed of the lathe (I'm not used to such precise and accurate machines!). I'll use diesel to get the old grease off, but is wire wool acceptable? Green metal polish on a powered felt pad?

Many thanks,

James

[James Jenkins 1Participant @jamesjenkins1]

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

There's some threads here

There is also a yahoo group here

Edited By Ady1 on 05/05/2016 14:11:03

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Wire wool especially the causer varieties might be a bit scratchy. Try a kitchen scourer with paraffin, or kerosene or white spirit or turps substitute depending on country to degrease and initial clean. You may find some dried in old oil stains respond to different solvents like carburettor cleaner better. For mild rust there are several grades of scotchbrite that have embedded abrasive of different levels. Then you might get to needing a rust treatment like phosphoric acid or electrolysis. Best to be gentle to start with especially on the precision surfaces.

[Keith LongParticipant @keithlong89920]

Unless there is excessive play in the bearings I'd leave well alone with the headstock apart from washing the bearings through with the diesel while turning the spindle by hand.The bearings are designed as a total loss system so you should flush any muck through as well. The first step would be to clean any debris from the oiling holes as you don't want that to go through the bearings. When the diesel comes though freely and is clean switch to a light oil – the 32 grade hydraulic oil from Machine Mart is fine, but you might already have something suitable that you use your other machinery.

Taking the headstock apart isn't difficult, but there are things to watch out for with setting the bearings back up again. You should find information about that on the Yahoo Drummond group, not sure if it's in the files section or whether you need to search for the relevant thread, asking the question there should come up with an answer for you.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Take a look in the Files section on the yahoo Drummondlathes group and get a good idea of how the headstock set up works. As mentioned already, clean out the oilers, flush the bearings, oil them up and adjust if necessary. Be sure to follow the correct procedure of slacking off the oiler bolts before adjusting the brass collars with a C spanner (or punch for those of a not so sensitive nature) and then retighten the oilers. This usually means setting the bearings a bit tight as they loosen up a tad when you nip up the oiler bolts.

If you do ever pull the spindle out of the headstock, take the opportunity to fit an endless poly-V belt in place of the old leather flat belt (unless you already have V pulleys in place). The Poly-V belt run beautifully on the flat pulleys with no need for V grooves and grip waaaaay better than the old leather or nylon flat belts.

Edited By Hopper on 06/05/2016 12:17:54

[here againParticipant @hereagain]

I have some iso100 from machine mart which is sae30 hydraulic oil..He said he had never heard of iso32..!

[here againParticipant @hereagain]

I have some iso100 from machine mart which is sae30 hydraulic oil..He said he had never heard of iso32..!

[here againParticipant @hereagain]

I have some iso100 from machine mart which is sae30 hydraulic oil..He said he had never heard of iso32..!

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by here again on 06/05/2016 16:14:22:
I have some iso100 from machine mart which is sae30 hydraulic oil..He said he had never heard of iso32..!

.

I suspect that he has only 'heard of' what they sell

**LINK**

MichaelG.

[here againParticipant @hereagain]

As long as its the same.iso100 in the same scale would be far too sticky..
Jonathon

[here againParticipant @hereagain]

Oops..no idea why that happened!I hope to have my 1910 pre b type up and running soon too..Its in very good condition except haedstock bearing which has quite a loud click..I have an old very mucky headstock which seems to have new bearings..Hopefully I can slide the new ones in without moving the headstock..Fat chance!!

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

I wouldnt agonize too much over oil choice for one of these old dinosaurs. The bearings are a low-speed, low-tech application. Mine has been running on whatever leftover engine oil is kicking around the garage for the past 40+ years. For the ways I like to use synthetic engine oil as it does not gum up so much but generally dino engine oil works just fine. SAE 30/iso100 might be a bit thick if you live in a cold climate. Mostly I use sae20/50 or 10/40 leftover from car/bike oil changes. Auto tranny fluid works well too but I don't like the smell or the bright red splatter everywhere.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

That red auto-transmission and steering fluid stuff is very good but expensive

A tiny bit on a tight stiff metal radiator cap or a tight rubber overflow cap turns them into easy peasy on/off caps for regular maintenance purposes

[here againParticipant @hereagain]

I ve always had problems with yahoo and cant access the drummond group properly..I ve been searching the net for a fixed steady but havent found anything which would fit or near fit, does anyone happen to know please..Jonathon

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Yahoo works better with a browser that is not Microsoft. I run Chrome just for that. Still a pain to use but the group information is essential reading.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

The original M series fixed steady is actually pretty rubbish and can only do relatively thin delicate work, I got a finger dig-in on one job and the casting snapped on me

If you want a decent one you need to make your own, a cheap welding kit can put the "casting" parts together

(yet another "ongoing job"… sigh)

Myford do a nice one for their lathes but their lathe beds are different

Edited By Ady1 on 07/05/2016 11:41:02

This is the base casting I did as an experiment, have been held up for months deciding what the best fingertip system could be

Edited By Ady1 on 07/05/2016 11:51:56

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

My effort at a m-type fixed steady, cut from a piece of 1" plate. Not for the impatient!! It would be smarter to use 1/2" plate and maybe weld on some tabs where the bolt holes are tapped through. The finger bolts are 1/2" (or 9/16"?) UNF grade 8 with bronze tips. It's pretty solid in use.!

And in action, parting a slice off a piece of 2" steel bar

Sorry about the sideways pic. It is right way up in Photobucket but insists on lying down on this page.

I have a Myfrod ML7 steady too but it does not come close to fitting the M type. Would have to hacksaw the bottom half off the casting, make the new bottom half from steel to fit the M and then get the twain welded together by someone with more welding knowhow than I. So I figured it was just as easy to make the whole durn thing from scratch. (That was before performing surgery on 1" plate with drill press and hacksaw and file.)

Edited By Hopper on 07/05/2016 12:46:35

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Hopper on 07/05/2016 12:42:10:

Sorry about the sideways pic. …

.

It displays correctly on my iPad

Ain't 'technology' unpredictable

MichaelG.

[here againParticipant @hereagain]

Thank you Bazyle..yahoo wint accept either of me email addresses ,as expected..I can read parts of it though.very nice Hopper..I ll have a go…

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

The only caveat I would place on Hoppers 1/2" advice is that it may be too thin on the bed and you would need a nice fat base for gripping the lathe bed, an inch minimum IMO

The lathe bed is cast iron and lacks strength under tension (pulling) and you will have some funny forces acting sideways and pulling up the way from the fixed steady and it's ALL acting on the lathe bed ways, so the more metal you have in contact with those ways the safer your bed ways will be from getting cracked when you do a bigger job.

Their original fixed steady may have been deliberately made weedy to protect the lathe.

edit: Nice job there Hopper btw

Edited By Ady1 on 08/05/2016 01:50:28

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Thanks Addy. I agree on making the base a good 1" wide, or more. On mine, which I made some time ago, I incorporated in the base that second piece that sticks down so the main clamping force from the front bolt is only on the front way. The rear clamp is then nipped up just for good measure. This way, the clamping force is not squeezing the two ways together, which might not be good for the lathe. Although, one of the old designs kicking around from Duplex or someone of that era says that they did not use this feature and it did their lathe no harm over many years of use. But the base was 1" or so wide.

I see my lazy pic has righted itself. Aint technology wunnerful.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Hoppers design is the way to go. my lashup is missing the critical central bit for serious work

If you look at the ways in the manual I have highlighted the drummond system in red

The left hand side "grips" the left hand way on BOTH sides while the right hand side way section tightens to the underside of the bed

There is a small clearance at D which I have tried to highlight in blue

 

Edited By Ady1 on 09/05/2016 10:10:48

[James Jenkins 1Participant @jamesjenkins1]

Hi everyone,

Thanks so much for the advice and the really interesting information on making fixed steady. The bed has now been cleaned of grease and muck. It's not quite as bright and sparkly as would like, but I guess that's just vanity and best to stop now before effecting the accuracy for the sake of aesthetics.

I have striped the lathe down as much as I intend to (basically to the headstock) and have the following questions (if I'm not pushing my luck with advice!):

1) With a plate on the headstock thread I put a clock gauge on the top. With firm upward hand pressure on the plate I get about 0.0005" movement upwards, if I increase this pressure there is a slight click or sound and I get 0.0035" movement. Any suggestions on whether I should adjust this? I cannot seem to access the files on the Drummond Forum as I only signed up via email.

2) I noticed that the lathe has lost a tooth on the small cog to the rear of the mandrel, the one that powers the back gear. I am only just getting to grips with the basics of lathes, let alone cog making, so how much of a hindrance is this going to be?

Many thanks for all your advice,

James

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

You can run her quite happily without backgear until you feel able to take the job on.

You can make the headstock as accurate as you need it to be, roughing down work for example has no need for extreme accuracy

You are now at the stage where you need to teach yourself latheing, which was about a 4 year apprenticeship for a full time employee back in the day.

The only useful advice I can give is don't use a powerful motor or make the belt too tight for the first few months, you will probably have a few mishaps, especially at the start, as you learn

Books like Spareys "The Amateurs lathe" are very useful, you can get cheapo second hand copies all over the place

Edited By Ady1 on 10/05/2016 14:42:40

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