Dean Smith and Grace

[Raymond AndersonParticipant @raymondanderson34407]

Hello all,

                     I have just joined the forum today so this is my first post.

 I have the chance to purchase a Dean Smith and Grace model 17t 

it is in pristine condition [only a few small chips on the paint work]  it was built in 1976 and is a toolroom lathe.  My brother who is a foreman turner tells me that DSG’s are the finest lathes ever built which seems like a good enough endorsement, has anyone got anything to add?  by the way if I do purchase the lathe [which looks likely] then it does not come cheap!, but then quality never does.

                                                      Regards,

                                                  Hasteloy.

[Raymond AndersonParticipant @raymondanderson34407]

Advice

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

Make sure it comes with equipment, faceplate, three jaw, four jaw and fixed steady.

as a minimum.

regards David

[Raymond AndersonParticipant @raymondanderson34407]

Thanks for the reply David  yes the DSG comes with all the equipment you mention  it also comes with a taper turning attachment and 2 faceplate s.  

 Also whilst I am at the computer my original lathe which I purchased about 9 years ago [Warco GH 750]  has been performing superbly since I bought it [never needed as much as a bulb for the machine lamp]  but, now the threading chart for the change gears is becoming illegible due I suspect  to coolant over the years. Warco tells me this model is now discontinued  and does not appear able to help So if any other user of the said lathe could give me any info  I would be most grateful .

                                                        Regards,        

                                                 Hasteloy.                                                 

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Hi Raymond,

 

It is quite possible to calculate the changewheels. All you need to know is the leadscrew pitch and possibly depending on the lathe, the number of teeth on the mandrel gear wheel. Note that I don’t mean the bull wheel which Myfords have.

 

I would recommend borrowing from the library Len Mason’s book, Using the Small Lathe where in Chapter 10 he covers just your problem.

 

Of course, if you had a lathe like mine, Warco 220, you would  find the necessary formulas and a copy of the chart in the handbook – complete with what looks like a mistake!

 

Good luck,

 

Peter G. Shaw

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

One of our local engineers,when he set up a work shop to service his brickworks,bought the DSG lathe that he used about 40yrs ago(it was’nt new then)but its a wee bit bigger than the average modeler could house,its at least 6ft between centers,and I think the chucks are 18″,but a nice machine to use,if its anything to go by any DSG lathe would be great.IAN S C

[Geoff TheasbyParticipant @geofftheasby]

Raymond,

Of course DSG lathes are the finest, they hail from my home town of Keighley!

I went on holiday to North Wales once, and sitting in a pub in Caernarvon, I saw that the pub table I was using was cast in Keighley, then I went to Boston Lodge workshops on the Festiniog Railway and saw a DSG lathe in use there.

There’s no rest for the wicked!

 

Regards

Geoff

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Raymond, Even though Warco have discontinued the GH 750 take a look at http://www.grizzly.com and see if they have a similar machine because these people have all their manuals on line.

 

 

John S.

[Raymond AndersonParticipant @raymondanderson34407]

Hello folks,

                           Many thanks to all who offered advice to my questions.  Well I could not resist it, the DSG has been purchased and transport arranged for Tuesday. incedently

1 of my brothers who is a foreman turner has checked out the lathe [took approx 11/2 hrs]

and everything is hunky dory.  Turns,Bores,Faces, Parts off  and threads a treat.  I will have to open up the existing opening in my workshop to get it in but as I am a bricklayer that is no big deal  [bigger lintol, new blockwork door cheeks] a snip for a couple of hours.

Ps, for anyone who is interested the DSG comes in at 3185 kg’s..

                                                Best wishes to all,

                                                   Hasteloy.

[Malcolm LeafeParticipant @malcolmleafe95932]

Dear Raymond,

 

 DSG lathes are wonderful. If you should want any bits then DSG are still in action as a repair and parts set-up – I think they are still in part of the old factory in Keighley (I last saw the place 4 years ago).

 

The weight sounds very typical – A Colchester Student/ Harrison M300 are about 900 Kg for comparison.

 

I have used a 16 in x 40 odd in. DSG at the local tech – super smooth.

 

Cheers

 

M. Leafe

[Dinosaur EngineerParticipant @dinosaurengineer]

DSG lathes were always considered one of the best lathes in the 50s & 60s . Most decent toolrooms had at least one. In those days most decent M/Cs had a substantial cast iron base which definitely improved accuracy & surface finish . None of the pressed steel bases for DSGs !  Hence the weight !

As a toolmaker in a shop without a dedicated turner we used to almost come to blows who was going to use the DSG rather than the Colchesters. Only time served proven  guys were allowed to use the DSG..

The DSG was certainly a nice M/C  to use , you could put a cut on and that was exactly the amount that was taken off.  I think most reasonable size DSGs cost about the same as a reasonable house ! Some models would cost sustantially more.

Happy days !

Edited By Dinosaur Engineer on 21/06/2010 17:31:18

Edited By Dinosaur Engineer on 21/06/2010 17:33:23

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

We recently went to the Dalaucothi Gold Mines (it was very different from when I visited as a schoolboy some 30 years ago).

 

In the workshops is a very large Dean Smith and Grace lathe:

 

Seems a bit big for the toolroom to me, but if yours comes in at nearly 4 tons perhaps it’s the same

 

Shame it isn’t the other way around.

 

Neil!

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

I should point out that the lathe in the picture is standing on the ground…

 

Neil

[Dinosaur EngineerParticipant @dinosaurengineer]

Even the smallest DSG lathe with 13″ swing ( 6.5″ centre height) weighed about 2 tons ! – about 3 times the weight of the equivalent colchester student .

Edited By Dinosaur Engineer on 22/06/2010 16:15:12

[Raymond AndersonParticipant @raymondanderson34407]

Stub Mandrel,

                             I’m not sure of the model in your picture,  my model 17t was built in about 1976 and is not  a big as the one in your photo which, appears to be of a earlier design.

although any DSG  of whatever vintage is  built with no compromise in quality. 

                                                  Thanks,

                                                   Raymond. 

[Jim NolanParticipant @jimnolan76764]

Just took delivery of mine

 

 

A 1307 with about the same capacity as the Bantam i sold but 2.5T and you need to be built like garth to shift the tail stock.

Seven and a half horse power of Keighley gold

Jim

Edited By Jim Nolan on 14/05/2011 21:41:27

[Lawrie Alush-JaggsParticipant @lawriealush-jaggs50843]

Hi Jim

 

If you look the the southern Horizon and see something of a green glow, it is me and my envy. What an excellent machine. I’m sure you’ll both be very happy.

Any chance of letting us know what you paid for it?

 

Lawrie

[Dave TointonParticipant @davetointon92281]

When I was an apprentice, a lot of years ago, we had a Dean Smith and Grace horizontal borer, had a 4 jaw chuck about 4 foot in diameter, and was a magnificent machine!! It was smooth and accurate and was almost a privilage to use. If their lathes are anywhere near as good you are fortunate to own one!!!

Regards

Dave Tointon

 

 

 

[Jim NolanParticipant @jimnolan76764]

Lawrie,

 

I will PM you the price.

 

First job will be half a dozen axles then I have some 10″ wheel sets to profile so I am going to give the taper turning attachment a whirl.

 

Only down side is the conventional four way tool post, its years since I threw out all the shimming. So I am looking for a QCTP alternative, although the action on this one is so slick I am loathed to part with it. Aloris in the states make a gizmo which is essentially the gripping bit of their tool post which bolts into the existing tool post like a conventional tool so I might give that a shot.

 

Jim

[Steve GarnettParticipant @stevegarnett62550]

Posted by Raymond Anderson on 06/11/2009 10:59:38:

I have the chance to purchase a Dean Smith and Grace model 17t

it is in pristine condition [only a few small chips on the paint work] it was built in 1976 and is a toolroom lathe.

I just looked this up on the Lathes site. That is one seriously nice lathe! It’s here, if anybody’s interested.

[Raymond AndersonParticipant @raymondanderson34407]

Hello Steve,

Yes that is the lathe that I purchased although the weight is slightly heavier than the 2.5t listed on the lathe site. My one is 3185kg It really is a superb machine very quiet but capable of taking massive depths of cut and the finish is amazing. I have tried to put some photo’s up but always get the “page not responding” scenario. I have tried saving the photo’s in Paint but as yet no joy. I don’t use the DSG very often as I use mostly my Warco GH750 [FAR CHEAPER TO RUN] but if I need a lot of metal removed quick then it’s the DSG.

My version has the Timken bearings.

Raymond.

[Steve GarnettParticipant @stevegarnett62550]

Posted by Raymond Anderson on 16/05/2011 17:58:01:

Yes that is the lathe that I purchased although the weight is slightly heavier than the 2.5t listed on the lathe site. My one is 3185kg

Is yours the 36″ or 48″ one? If it’s the latter, that might well account for the extra weight.

[Raymond AndersonParticipant @raymondanderson34407]

Steve,

I have the longer version, although I cannot quite make out the weight on the DSG plate, I would’nt think that an extra 300mm would account for an additional 700 or so Kg’s

I got the weight from the crane driver who lifted the DSG. he got the reading from the load indicator.

Regards,

Raymond.

[Steve GarnettParticipant @stevegarnett62550]

It’s still a staggering weight for a relatively small lathe, isn’t it? The other option though is that it’s a typo on the Lathes site. Assuming we are not talking metric equivalents, your weight works out at 3.5 tons (short) – only one digit out. That’s about the average weight of an elephant!

[alan frostParticipant @alanfrost17805]

Don’t want to make anyone too green about DSGs but a young friend of mine was on the look out for a large Harrison or Colchester or similar. I had told him DSGs occasionally turned up and went cheaply at auction as not everyone has the space. No sooner had the comment left my flying keybord fingers when one turned up in Peterhead ( we are both in Scotland) on ebay which he procured for £650 plus a longish drive with a Landrover and heavy trailer. It came with most of the accessories including a taper turning attachment , power boring fitting etc and looked in v. good nick (I have n’t been down to see it yet ). Miracles do happen !! Would that I have had the space !! The TT fitting is probably worth what he paid for it , and to think I paid £350 more for my, albeit wonderful , Emco V10P.

 

Alan Frost

 

Every day is a schoolday.

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