Cross vice backlash

[dave george 1Participant @davegeorge1]

Ive been given a clarke 100 cross vice, it has terriable backlash on the X & Y axis. Ive not looked at it properly but the backlash is about a 1/4 turn on both lead screw. Is they a way to eliminate this backlash, by making a new bush for the lead screws, has anyone had a same problem if so how did you sort it
Thanks for looking

[dave george 1Participant @davegeorge1]

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

I have one of those too; they are what they are, cheap & nasty Chinese crap. The only way to cure it would be to make new nuts for the lead screws, mine is stored somewhere in the garage workshop… out of sight … out of mind, might find a use for it someday.

George.

[NJHParticipant @njh]

Dave I suspect that is why you were given it ! I have one and have used it once or twice on my pillar drill when a series of holes are needed …. but only because there was work set up in the vertical mill. If you do manage to fettle it to good health let us know how it goes.

Norman

[Andy HoldawayParticipant @andyholdaway]

I was also given one, and despite my best attempts at fettling it into something useable it now lives under the bench, waiting for the time I need it to provide some raw materials!

Andy

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Add me to the list …

150mm version, gift from a friend

Spent several years tripping over it, whilst I pondered whether it could be made or modified into anything useful.

Even the castings were lousy quality [blowholes and inclusions], so eventually I gave it to the Charity Shop … They put it on ebay, and sold it for £53 to a buyer who was delighted with it.

Just goes to prove that "one man's meat is another man's poison" …

MichaelG.

[Gray62Participant @gray62]

I chopped mine up and use the vice on the drill press, the rest went in the scrap bin, never to be seen again

[LambtonParticipant @lambton]

I bought a cross vice from Graham Engineering about 30 yearst was made in Taiwan and is of much better quality

than the ones referred to above. I fitted locks on both the slides, reduced the small amount of backlash as much as possible by eliminating the end float in the feed screws. I also made and fitted re-settable index dials to both axes It is permanently fitted on to the table of my Med dings drill.

I have used it for light milling in the past before I had a milling machine but its main function is to aid the accurate positioning of jobs under the drill centre line using the locks to hold slides firmly and moving between hole centres using the index dials.

They are not intended to be co-ordinate tables – just positioning devises.

I am pleased with mine but have not tried a modern Chinese version.

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

Graham Engineering, a real blast from the past. I was a regular there, usually for things like big drills and cutters from the second hand pile when the job did not justify buying new for a one off.

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

I also bought a cross-vice from Graham Engineering when I also bought a pedestal drill. The drill has been used regularly over the last 30 odd years and is still an accurate tool. The cross vice is used in the same way as Lambton, for accurate positioning of workpieces to drill marked out holes, mine may be a later model than Lanbton's as it already had the axis locks fitted as purchased.

Emgee

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I've "jig bored" on a pillar drill with one without too much trouble.

I just took no notice of the scales etc and set it up with a digital calliper and locked the slides before drilling the holes.

Back play isn't a problem anyway really – it always has to be accounted for when moving things about. The main aspect that may need some attention is setting the slides.

John

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[dave george 1Participant @davegeorge1]

Thanks for the comments guys,after a quick mess last night ive managed to eliminate most of the backlash from a 1/4 of turn to a bit of a turn.gonna take the lead screws out cis they look bent gonna try and get some threaded bar of the lead screws. Might look into making some bushes for the end of lead screw or sealed bearings. The vice is only being used for drilling on pillar drill

[IanTParticipant @iant]

"but its main function is to aid the accurate positioning of jobs under the drill centre line using the locks to hold slides firmly and moving between hole centres using the index dials"

I almost agree with Lambton. I have two of these cross vices and the larger one is permanently attached to my large drill table. Mine have plenty of backlash too but I don't use the 'dials' (if you can actually call them that – they are more 'decorations' really) to position the vice though. However, I can generally cope with all of that when I'm drilling marked out work.

The biggest problem to my mind is that neither of my vices are quite true, in the sense that the tables do not move exactly at right angles to each other – they are very slightly out. I am well aware of this and routinely make small adjustments when moving between in-line holes but it is the most irritating thing about them for me. I keep meaning to do something about it – and also make new (usable) dials and new support bearings (at the far end) to stop the lead screws wriggling about (etc etc) but like so many other things I haven't quite got around toit yet.

So if you want 'dialled in' accuracy when setting your drill table – then you should probably buy a proper compound table and mount a vice on it. It will cost you a great deal more but they might be a better long term solution for you.

In the meanwhile – my cross vices were very cheap and serve their purpose "well enough" in that they hold the work securely and make work positioning fairly simple albeit with some careful inspection required. So, until I make time to improve them, that's the way they will remain and as they are nowhere near the top of my problem list – that may be a good while yet – if ever.

Regards,

IanT

[dave george 1Participant @davegeorge1]

after seeing all the negative comments how rubbish these vices are,and said to myself

surely it cant be all that bad

decided to try it on pillar drill,then found out the lead screw that tightens the vice was catching

on the round bar that holds the drill,and thought take the top slide of and turn it around so that that

lead screw was in front of me and not catching at the back,i then dropped something on the floor

bent down to pick it up,on standing up summat caught my eye on the vice,looked closely and said to my self

wtf ?????

now i know what you guys what you mean about the negative comments about the vice

this dont look much

and nor does this

i know clarke stuff are bad,but i didnt know it was this bad

theres about 2.5mm gap on the bottom slide,and about 1.5mm gap on the top slide

so instead of fettling this up,i gave it to a charity shop so they can benefit from it by selling it

this has cross my mind a few months back whether to invest in a compound table,and now after seein this state off vice,im gonna invest in a smallish compound table,does anybody have any recomendations

on where to get a used table (pref) and what prices,what makes,in the UK aswell

thanks

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Are you sure that it's just that the gib strips aren't in the right place or are missing ?

Looks like it to me.

John

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Edited By Ajohnw on 29/04/2016 17:43:02

[dave george 1Participant @davegeorge1]

the gib strips are present

as seen here on left hand side,you can see a bit of light between the gib and the gib screw,specialy if you click picture

[dave george 1Participant @davegeorge1]

a couple of more showing the gib strip

[bodgeParticipant @bodge]

Hi Dave

A fair few years ago i bought a X-Y table, apart from the table every thing below looks the same as you have in the pics { i was a bit slow of the mark cos i had already looked at x-y vices and was not too impressed } one other thing to be aware of is the X and the Y might not run at a true 90* degree, mine didnt , checked it with verdict type dti and the needle ran out of numbers, it was that bad more than 17 thou in less than 6 inch of y travel. I suppose i should have sent it back but all the hassel and postage cost put me off and if replaced the next one might not of been any better. I got over the problems but it took about 60 hours work on a ten inch shaper could of knocked a few hours off but machined all surfaces , new gibs and drilled for 2 extra gib screws making it 4 gib screws plus a locking screw for each axis. The up side of all the work was it proved the accuracy of the shaper, but thats another story………b

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by dave george 1 on 29/04/2016 18:54:34:

a couple of more showing the gib strip

I can see there's poor design & finish but surely those gaps should be gaps (smaller ones would be better) the actual sliding faces seem to be in contact (even if the top ones are very narrow)?

[bodgeParticipant @bodge]

Hi Neil

Yes you are right about the gib strips they are nothing more than bar stock, the sort of stuff one would use for scroll work on a garden gate ! I remade them with minimal day light showing as in thous and put the correct angles on the tops and bottoms, much nicer……..b

Edited By bodge on 29/04/2016 21:12:36

[dave george 1Participant @davegeorge1]

i would of thought where the red circles are,would be closer to the bed

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by dave george 1 on 30/04/2016 10:42:15:

i would of thought where the red circles are,would be closer to the bed

So would ! But they shouldn't be in contact either. You could argue this is only a 'cosmetic' issue, but I would say that the actual sliding faces (both the horizontal and angled ones could benefit from having greater contact area, but this would need a bit more ;'meat' in the castings.

The third one down is OK, if scruffy. That said I don't suppose the sliding faces are perfect either – but it is 'only' a cheap cross vice not a milling table.

Neil

[bodgeParticipant @bodge]

The ones sold as x-y tables are better castings with much smaller gaps but they do have gibs like those in the pics and might or might not be running at true 90'…….b

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