Coronavirus

[Michael CheckleyParticipant @michaelcheckley34085]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 01/04/2020 20:33:15:

**LINK**

3D printed face shields for NHS people at lower risk to help prioritise full shields for people dealing with high risks.

You have to take care to keep them sterile.

This looks a more practical way people with 3D printers can help. I'm on my second frame and only started 2 hours ago.

If I can do 20 in two-three days it looks like DHL will collect and take them to the central distribution point.

Neil

I have also seen requests for support on places like LinkedIn and having all the tools to assist I have been thinking about how I can also do my bit. However, does anyone know if this "stuff" will actually make it to our NHS staff? or will it end up in landfill or sold abroad? I have heard stories of piles of donated PPE that cannot be used as it does not meet the requirements. Next years documentaries are probably being written as we speak.

Having worked on a few medical equipment projects I know that it can take as much effort to get through qualification as it did to design the thing in the first place. If I was handed a homemade face mask to wear either on a ward or in a car park doing routine checks I`m not sure I would be that happy. I suppose its better than nothing but they don't have nothing its out there, somewhere, waiting to be distributed. The impression I have is that we have enough PPE in the UK its just in the wrong place and getting moved about more promptly now.

Perhaps someone that knows first hand can clarify as I would be happy for my Ultimaker to be working day and night if it was going to good use.

Mike

[shaun meakin 1Participant @shaunmeakin1]

I am sorry I can confirm the Doncaster Exhibition has been cancelled due to the coronavirus This is a wise and very brave decision by the organisers who I am sure will be well out of pocket having spent on publicity etc.
CuP are currently considering ways to soften the blow for their customers, government restrictions allowing. Please watch this space.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

This may be of interest: **LINK**

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/new-tool-biomedical-research-was-invented-ancient-egypt-180974559/

The referenced communication in ‘Nature’ is a free download.

MichaelG.

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Posted by Martin Kyte on 02/04/2020 09:10:39:

As to pgk pgk's 'we are not privy to the real statistics'. I would suggest we are. The government are being completely frank with us. Data is disseminated as soon as it is available and reliable. It is the governments interest that the population take all the neccessary precautions to stop the spread and if there were a high risk of spread through material handling then warning would be issued.

Just to be clear my comment was based in the belief that these statistics are unknown and if the hazrard happened to be really high then it's kept from people to 'avoid panic'

First it was 2 weeks isolation, then 12weeks for old folks, then 3 mths for everyone and now mutters of 6mths or longer. It's done that way in the belief that folk will accept longer durations once they are in the habit and (hopefully) seeing some response. We now get mutters about a second peak next winter – so 12mths? That's not being frank.

pgk

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

Danny M, I don’t think you are too paranoid, I do the same with mail and parcels but I wait till the delivery person/postman is out of sight before donning the gloves and handling the items, that way I feel that I am sensitive to how they feel. I think in the bigger scale of things we will all probably suffer the virus, some not even knowing that they have had it due to the range of effects that it can have. The reality is that just one virus particle is enough to infect a person and the virus particles are approximately 20 nanometres in size, very difficult to dodge. Anyway the gov. at the start of this crisis we’re talking about the population gaining “herd immunity” that means by its definition, everyone being exposed to the virus. I think it’s becoming apparent that the various agencies only paid lip service to forward planning for an inevitable pandemic, not just related to the U.K. the USA is beginning to suffer shortages of materiel and equipment, on the news this morning Russia has delivered a consignment of aid to the USA, this included ventilators, bet Donald will not mention that in his daily ramblings. Anyway hope you all stay safe.
Dave W

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Michael Checkley on 02/04/2020 09:11:09:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 01/04/2020 20:33:15:

**LINK**

3D printed face shields for NHS people at lower risk to help prioritise full shields for people dealing with high risks.

You have to take care to keep them sterile.

This looks a more practical way people with 3D printers can help. I'm on my second frame and only started 2 hours ago.

If I can do 20 in two-three days it looks like DHL will collect and take them to the central distribution point.

Neil

I have also seen requests for support on places like LinkedIn and having all the tools to assist I have been thinking about how I can also do my bit. However, does anyone know if this "stuff" will actually make it to our NHS staff? or will it end up in landfill or sold abroad? I have heard stories of piles of donated PPE that cannot be used as it does not meet the requirements. Next years documentaries are probably being written as we speak.

Having worked on a few medical equipment projects I know that it can take as much effort to get through qualification as it did to design the thing in the first place. If I was handed a homemade face mask to wear either on a ward or in a car park doing routine checks I`m not sure I would be that happy. I suppose its better than nothing but they don't have nothing its out there, somewhere, waiting to be distributed. The impression I have is that we have enough PPE in the UK its just in the wrong place and getting moved about more promptly now.

Perhaps someone that knows first hand can clarify as I would be happy for my Ultimaker to be working day and night if it was going to good use.

Mike

Visit the website and check their FAQS. They already have orders for the masks which are being fulfilled and the legal side has been looked into. The masks have been approved in Poland and they are waiting on NHS approval.

[J HancockParticipant @jhancock95746]

I repeat, informed research today ( R4 6.30 news ) is stating minimum separation 6m/20ft , 2m is not enough.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Danny M2Z on 02/04/2020 05:43:14:

l had a few words with my postman/junk mail person today,

He saw me removing the junk mail from the mailbox and asked why was I wearing rubber gloves and remarked that he was fine so I was being a bit paranoid.

I told him that even if he was fine, he should buy and wear his own gloves…

What's more important, if he does get the WuFlu then every letter that he touches could spread it around my little township like wildfire.

Am I really being a bit too paranoid?

Too paranoid? I'm afraid so, yes.

The virus survives best in a human host. It doesn't last long in the open, usually much less than 72 hours. Most infection occurs when people get close enough to transfer the virus. Transfer might occur if an actively ill postman coughed on your package, you touched the slime, and then rubbed it into your face. Unlikely.

If postmen, or anyone else, spread Coronavirus 'like wild-fire' we would be in serious trouble.

I've spent a full week living in the same house as my infected daughter. That's off the scale risky compared with taking in the post. I've not bothered with a mask, or gloves. Instead I kept my distance – at least 3 metres, usually much more, washed my hands frequently, and always after handling dirty washing etc. I've also cleaned surfaces and doorhandles touched by herself. Fortunately having a downstairs toilet meant I can keep well away from the family bathroom. My precautions were quite straightforward. I would have worn gloves and a mask if she'd needed nursing, but she didn't.

Today she's up and dressed. Feeling washed out but no temperature or other symptoms. And I still haven't caught it! Fingers crossed, as I might be incubating.

The statistics suggest that, on average, each Covid-19 victim will infect 2.5 others. That's not many, but the infection rate is much higher in hospitals, care homes or anywhere else people collect in crowds. Someone who keeps indoors on their own is very unlikely to catch it. Compare the risk of staying at home with the idiot who rushes to a supermarket and fills his mobile home with bog rolls and pasta. Then, after collecting granny and the children, he visits a cash-point, refuels at a petrol station and drives 200 miles, stopping once for coffee and a pee break. On arrival he pays cash to the campsite owner and refuels again. Meanwhile his kids are buying sweets in the local shop and making new friends…

Dave

[Michael CheckleyParticipant @michaelcheckley34085]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 02/04/2020 10:08:04:

Posted by Michael Checkley on 02/04/2020 09:11:09:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 01/04/2020 20:33:15:

**LINK**

3D printed face shields for NHS people at lower risk to help prioritise full shields for people dealing with high risks.

You have to take care to keep them sterile.

This looks a more practical way people with 3D printers can help. I'm on my second frame and only started 2 hours ago.

If I can do 20 in two-three days it looks like DHL will collect and take them to the central distribution point.

Neil

I have also seen requests for support on places like LinkedIn and having all the tools to assist I have been thinking about how I can also do my bit. However, does anyone know if this "stuff" will actually make it to our NHS staff? or will it end up in landfill or sold abroad? I have heard stories of piles of donated PPE that cannot be used as it does not meet the requirements. Next years documentaries are probably being written as we speak.

Having worked on a few medical equipment projects I know that it can take as much effort to get through qualification as it did to design the thing in the first place. If I was handed a homemade face mask to wear either on a ward or in a car park doing routine checks I`m not sure I would be that happy. I suppose its better than nothing but they don't have nothing its out there, somewhere, waiting to be distributed. The impression I have is that we have enough PPE in the UK its just in the wrong place and getting moved about more promptly now.

Perhaps someone that knows first hand can clarify as I would be happy for my Ultimaker to be working day and night if it was going to good use.

Mike

Visit the website and check their FAQS. They already have orders for the masks which are being fulfilled and the legal side has been looked into. The masks have been approved in Poland and they are waiting on NHS approval.

Do you have a link to FAQ? I cannot find it on their website. Hopefully peoples efforts wont be wasted but currently if used its without approval and may never get it. On the other hand it could provide vital assistance to care workers who are not necessarily NHS staff and some literally have nothing in the form or PPE.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Samsaranda on 02/04/2020 10:07:32:

… The reality is that just one virus particle is enough to infect a person and the virus particles are approximately 20 nanometres in size, very difficult to dodge.

…
Dave W

Although it's possible to be infected by a single virus, it's very unlikely. Much as the probability of throwing six sixes in a row with dice is 1 to 46656 against. Don't bet the farm on odds like that!

The basic reproductive ratio of a disease ( R₀ ) is the number of infections directly started by 1 individual in a population where everybody is susceptible. Covid-19 is dangerous because everybody is susceptible and a small percentage of those catching it die.

The R₀ of Covid-19 is fairly low, in the range 1.4 to 3.9 Other common diseases have higher R₀: measles 12 to 15, ChickenPox 10 to 12, Whooping Cough 5.5. Covid-19 is less infectious than the common cold, but somewhat worse than ordinary seasonal Flu. Given that, say, 2.5 people will be infected by each Coronavirus victim, the probability of being infected by a single virus is almost zero.

Susceptibility (S) is another ratio. It's the proportion of the population who are vulnerable. S is normally close to average age divided by life expectancy, but Covid-19 puts everybody at risk, making S = 1.

R₀ and S suggest a way of controlling epidemics. By keeping Susceptible people apart, the disease cannot achieve it's natural R₀. If actual R₀ is forced down to less than one by reducing S, the epidemic will stop. Another way is to reduce S by vaccination. Given time S increases naturally as recovered patients cannot be infected again.

One model is based on R₀ is called SIR. It's main parameters are, at a given time:

• S is the number of people not infected yet,
• I is the number who are infected, and
• R is the number removed, no longer susceptible because they're recovered immune or deceased.

The basic maths of modelling an epidemic is fairly simple to those in the know, but it's difficult to get the assumptions right. For example, how effective is the lock-down, given some people must work, others will behave irresponsibly, or fail to understand the guidance applies to them too!

Epidemics are about probability, not certainties. It's not about you or me, it's about us. Individuals don't matter much, it's how the flock behave. So the modellers run many simulations, which the politicians pick from to decide what works best. Unfortunately, there's an element of chance in it. An assumption might be wrong, or manufacturers and services might be unable to deliver counter-measures in time. Anyone care to guess what the world demand for protective masks is at the moment; hundreds of millions or more. That number won't appear instantly by magic – as Churchill remarked of supply problems during WW2: 'Year 1, nothing; Year 2, a trickle, Year 3, a flood'.

I find probabilities difficult to grasp. If only I'd paid attention at school. Aged 14 I thought maths was irrelevant to real-life. Silly me, wrong again!

Fortunately what we need to do is fairly simple. Don't panic buy, avoid contact with others, self-isolate if ill, and wash hands often with soap and water, especially when handling food. Probably best to avoid home remedies, Old Wives, common sense solutions, conspiracy theories, and anything printed in the Daily Boobies!

Dave

Edit: pesky smileys!

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 02/04/2020 14:42:07

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

What can we Conclude from the reports on healthcare worker deaths

If readers are confused by the mass of contradictory information, so are we.

What can be desumed by this post is that no one really knows what is going on, least of all governments and professional associations which seem at odds with news outlets as to how many of their members have died.

As our grandfathers used to say, when you do not know what is going on, do nothing. This is what we plan to do from our privileged position: observe and monitor the situation without jumping to conclusions.

dated 26th march

plus a host of subnks to occupy folk

 

Link

Edited By pgk pgk on 02/04/2020 15:00:47

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Samsaranda on 02/04/2020 10:07:32:

[…]

the virus particles are approximately 20 nanometres in size, very difficult to dodge. […]

.

Dave,

Please see my post on page 32 30/03/2020 09:37:00

I would be very surprised if this one is only 20 nanometres [although I am quite willing to be proved wrong]

But it doesn’t really matter … even the biggest coronavirus is too small to be seen with a ‘visible light’ microscope, so your point is well made.

MichaelG.

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 02/04/2020 15:32:56:

Posted by Samsaranda on 02/04/2020 10:07:32:

[…]

the virus particles are approximately 20 nanometres in size, very difficult to dodge. […]

.

Dave,

Please see my post on page 32 30/03/2020 09:37:00

I would be very surprised if this one is only 20 nanometres [although I am quite willing to be proved wrong]

But it doesn’t really matter … even the biggest coronavirus is too small to be seen with a ‘visible light’ microscope, so your point is well made.

MichaelG.

But they are very susceptable to soap.

Regards Martin

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

As far as I have be able to ascertain size is in the 50-200nm.

regards Martin

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

You may find this page informative. UKRI is the umbrella organisation covering all the UK research branches including the Medical Reasearch Council.

**LINK**

regards Martin

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Michael Checkley on 02/04/2020 11:31:46:

Do you have a link to FAQ? I cannot find it on their website. Hopefully peoples efforts wont be wasted but currently if used its without approval and may never get it. On the other hand it could provide vital assistance to care workers who are not necessarily NHS staff and some literally have nothing in the form or PPE.

You need to sign up as a volunteer, that will let you sign in to their pages on Slack (a forum like system) and access the information on Google docs (regularly updated so I won't post a link to what might be an out of date document).

I'm on headband 6.

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Martin Kyte on 02/04/2020 15:49:30:

As far as I have be able to ascertain size is in the 50-200nm.

regards Martin

.

Which is nicely in line with the paper I linked on p32

… Thanks for the [good as we can get] confirmation

MichaelG.

[HOWARDTParticipant @howardt]

For those living in or near Warwick, with a 3D printer, and wanting to help.

Face mask supply

No connection with company, just know of it.

[Martin King 2Participant @martinking2]

First headband came out OK, now on 2nd and will try a stack of four overnight.

Martin

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

On number 9, but as I haven't done any chin peices yet don't think I will finish the batch until Saturday.

Neil

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by HOWARDT on 02/04/2020 17:52:48:

For those living in or near Warwick, with a 3D printer, and wanting to help.

Face mask supply

No connection with company, just know of it.

Looks like basically the same as the one I'm printing.

A clever bit is that a standard 4-hole punch used on a A4 sheet of anything transparent (even a pop bottle) will make a visor.

(edit: I should add in an emergency, the ones for the NHS will have laser cut PETG shields)

.Neil

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 02/04/2020 20:00:05

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

The Bridgewater canal passes through my town, and there are still pleasure boats passing along it. My MP has been in touch with the owners of the canal (not Canal and River Trust, who have closed their waterways)), and says he is happy with this. The occupants of these boats have to get off now and again to top up with water, diesel, empty the waste tank, go to the shops, etc. and they could be carrying the virus around the country. If we don't take this seriously more people will die

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Hi Duncan

Whilst I am not sure of the instructions regarding the Bridgewater Canal I will say this.

I get eMail updates from the Waterways Trust. There are a considerable number of people who live on boats permanently. Some are normally 'continuous cruising' in as far as they do not have permanent moorings and are normally required to move every so often typically every week or so. The Canal and River Trust have suspended the requirement to do this and are restricting movement to neccessary trips which are usually local for emptying waste, access to services such as fresh water and of course shopping like the rest of us. If you watch the roads a small volume of traffic still continues which again if its neccessary and local has to occur. Whilst I would agree totally that cruising for fun is not OK we have to accept a certain amount of movement just so they can live.

It may look like they are just having fun but I would suspect that the majority of these trips are neccessary.

I hope this sheds some light on the situation.

best regards Martin

Edited By Martin Kyte on 03/04/2020 15:53:27

Edited By Martin Kyte on 03/04/2020 16:11:31

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

In addition

If you would like to read the current policy see here

**LINK**

regards Martin

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I'm not convinced someone going to the shops on a narrowboat is more of a risk than someone in a car, and bear in mind that almost everyone on a narrowboat at this time of year probably lives on it.

Neil

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