Cheap 3 in 1 tig welder – any one used one?

[bodgeParticipant @bodge]

Apology accepted ………….b

I look forward to the conclusion of your exploits on the original post, ie" cheap 3 in 1 welders – any one used one " which i take to mean " are they any good "

I have had a few goes with tig thanks to a welder i knew some 40 years ago, i got on with it ok, but his tig machines were the the best one could buy at the time and very expensive, but that was how he made his money, he was a damned good welder though

My home experience has only been with mig, which i bought twenty years ago,a very good machine with solid copper transformers made in Denmark so not a cheap m/c, i did look into tig at the time but tig stuff was still very expensive at the time, ( 20 years ago ) but tig has come on a long way since then,

It is only this last 5-10 years that tig has come down to an affordable level for home use, so it will be interesting to hear how you get on………………b

[Mark CParticipant @markc]

Not exactly cheap, but I bought one of these from R-Tech two years ago **LINK**. It was the biggest machine I could get at the time on 240V single phase. When Bodge mentioned the machines have come down in price, I would add that they have also come a long way technology wise also. The machine I have is only capable of DC (you need AC to work aluminium) but the computer controlled welding functions make it almost impossible to make really poor welds with it for most day to day repair/fabrication work. They refuse to let you stick the electrode to the work in MMA mode, MIG is a doddle and TIG is nice and smooth (although lift tig takes some practice). I have welded all sorts of machines together with it, they say 35% duty but that must be at 250A and you are going to be welding supertankers together at that power…. Most of the stuff I do is about 130A max and it will go all day (and often a fair bit of the night) at that. I was very surprised at the performance of this type of machine – and you can even pick it up and carry it to the job if necessary.

Mark

[bodgeParticipant @bodge]

Have just had a look at your link to Par-weld in particular the 2 stage 2 gauge Argon gas saver unit,

States reduces gas surges and pulses, which is the idea of having 2 stage regulator, same thing applies to air rifles fitted with 2 regulators in series first regulator takes care of the high pressure pulse,seconed regulator then supplies a more consistant working pressure

This is why you get more shots per fill and more consistent muzzle velocity ,or to put it another way in air rifle terms a wider sweet spot per fill as the sweet spot starts form the first shot when the gun reservoir pressure is at its highest till enough shots have been fired to the the point where the reservoir pressure has fallen below the working pressure for given muzzle velocity, ……….b

Edited By bodge on 23/12/2016 01:38:25

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Got to endorse what Mark has said.

Many years ago I bought a brand new BOC / Murec 200 amp AC / DC TiG welder, not cheap but I do a lot of welding, mainly broken alloy castings and one advantage is I can TiG weld good. I had a ticket for welding on aircraft fuel tanker in another life.

So quite happy with this piece of kit until about 5 years ago when I had a go with one of these cheap Chinese £500 AC / DC TiG welders.

Talk about blown away, the difference was like night and day, so went out and bought one and since then the big TiG set has been on possibly once or twice and in fact was sold last month as no longer needed.

I can carry this new set in one hand, the other was on wheels and needed a crane or fork truck to get into the Donald. Single phase as opposed to 3 phase so far more portable.

If there is any fault with these it's that the book is useless but You tube comes to the rescue – yet again.

[bodgeParticipant @bodge]

Mark C

A valid comment, when l stated Tig has come on a long way in the last 5-10 years i was thinking in terms of technology as well as price

I always think of Tig in terms of aluminium as that was what i was needing forty years ago when my welder friend was around, and i did get on with ok as i got to have a go with it a few times in his work shop when things were a bit quiet

So question, are AC / DC Tig machine available these days at a home work shop price

Have just read J S post so i will take it thats a NO then !…………….b oops i think just read that wrong and it should be a YES ! … its late and off to the land of nod will check it out later………b

Edited By bodge on 23/12/2016 02:16:25

Edited By bodge on 23/12/2016 02:22:35

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Let's be clear on the regulated air guns. They only have one regulator which limits the air pressure used. The simple outcome is to provide consistent muzzle energy over the useful main gas bottle range. Consistent muzzle energy means consistent pellet velocity over the pellet count from first shot to air bottle refill time. The 'unregulated' mechanism is designed such that it allows less air volume (at high pressure) and more (at lower pressure) due to its cycling time lengthening as the pressure drops (valve tends to stay open longer).

 

Yes, the number of shots may be increased marginally, but the whole concept is to provide a consistent muzzle energy over the whole usefull pressure range of the bottle – and nothing else!.

 

Typically bottles are filled to 190 Bar and without regulation, pellet energy is initially high, then has a reasonable range for good accuracy, then the muzle energy falls off rapidly at pressures, say, below 120 bar. All the single internal regulator does is give a consistent firing pressure from max to useful min fill pressure.

 

Muzzle energy in the UK must not exceed about 16 Joules unless the user has a firearms certificate(FAC).  All the regulator does is maintain a constant muzzle energy, generally close to that maximum, without exceeding it, for the whole useful pressure range between refills.  FAC versions also benefit in the same way, of course, but at an elvated muzzle energy.

Edited By not done it yet on 23/12/2016 09:28:35

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Air guns are based around modified versions of hydraulic regulators. Usually into a small reservoir so that the pellet gets the correct pressure as soon as the trigger is pulled – or as near as they can get to that.

The gas saver one Bodge mentioned is this one

**LINK**

The general idea is that the output pressure of a regulator will change as the input pressure changes so 2 are used in series so the 2nd guage sees less pressure change. Argon cylinders can be up to 300bar. Don't know what the min pressure can be but it's a hell of a range for a regulator to cope with. I'd guess >>2 bar when empty.

The style of flow regulator plus gauge I have bought isn't too fussy about pressure only gas type. The output of the single stage regulator to go with it is likely to vary as the bottle empties but the flow control can be changed to suite. If the flow remains constant for a welding session that's ok. I think it will.

John

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[bodgeParticipant @bodge]

Posted by Ajohnw on 23/12/2016 10:17:46:

Air guns are based around modified versions of hydraulic regulators. Usually into a small reservoir so that the pellet gets the correct pressure as soon as the trigger is pulled – or as near as they can get to that.

The gas saver one Bodge mentioned is this one

**LINK**

The general idea is that the output pressure of a regulator will change as the input pressure changes so 2 are used in series so the 2nd guage sees less pressure change. Argon cylinders can be up to 300bar. Don't know what the min pressure can be but it's a hell of a range for a regulator to cope with. I'd guess >>2 bar when empty.

The style of flow regulator plus gauge I have bought isn't too fussy about pressure only gas type. The output of the single stage regulator to go with it is likely to vary as the bottle empties but the flow control can be changed to suite. If the flow remains constant for a welding session that's ok. I think it will.

John

–

Hi John yes that"s the general idea.

To not done it yet , The two regulator idea for pcp air rifles was tried for awhile , seems to have been a a short lived idea though, i"ve just had a look on Robert Lanes site and i see they are now on the MK 8 regulator so there seems to have been many improvements over the last five years

Some pcp air rifles now have on board electronic control, Daystate ..for one………………..b

Any way i think i"m about done, on the subject , as none of this really going any where , i also dont need a lecture on UK air gun regulations and would not risk messing about with it, works just fine as it is

No reply necessary as im done posting here

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

The gauge and flow bit's have arrived. The regulator can be adjusted. Small nut on the end of a big one locks the adjustment in place. For some reason the scale on the flow gauge faces the opposite direction to the gauge on the regulator when it's fitted. Suppose it doesn't matter really. The scale is marked Argon as is the regulator gauge. I suspect the one that goes to a higher reading will show mig and may be for CO2. There are some about with 2 scales on them but I have no interest in mig. Been there and done that and wasn't keen.

When I mentioned the flow gauge not being too sensitive to pressure I meant calibration pressure. Pressure change will alter the flow so it's case of how much the pressure changes. Maybe too much when the bottle gets low, Not much when it's full up if it's a decent sized bottle. It'll depend on how long the welder is used too.

That is it in the area of things to buy. Just electrodes to use left. I'm inclined to follow some advice on here ( I think it was on here ) 2.4mm as I have never seen some one use a tig welder and change size what ever they have been welding. They do change current. There are various suggestions on the web. I've seen one that suggests 1.6mm for all with an option of 1mm on thin stuff. It's may be a case of who to believe.

I think most people would change the tig torch. I suspect I'll get that from Cromwell along with gas lens gear.

There is another thread on here concerning the welder and tig

**LINK**

There may be another not sure. I've looked at several. Often it wasn't this particular unit. Another model.

One thing that might be worth mentioning is scratch start. The manual mentions HF discharge stopping once the arc starts. That is what the unit does. I assume this means it isn't a scratch start unit. I have never used one with hf start though. It does seem to strike very easily. The stick setting isn't too bad either but not up to what would now be a rather old industrial transformer one. I think that needs circa 70v.

The compressor I have now bought might be a mistake on a couple of counts, Have to see which will take a while. I do have a vague idea of what to do with it if it is – with a medium sized but.

John

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[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I think the rather large wrapped xmas present by the tree is the compressor.

I spent a bit of time looking around for a replacement torch head. Prices for the same thing vary remarkably so bought of Cromwell.

The torch that comes with it may be made of bakelite. Interesting as ashtrays were sometimes made of it – no problem stubbing them out or maybe there was eventually.

It comes with a nice strong double walled box to keep it all in. Decent if a touch on the small size bags for the tig and cutting torch but not one for stick and the ground lead.

Also looked for what I suspect is a decent consumable kit on ebay that wont contain lots I don't want. I could only find one. It includes 1x1mm, 3×1.6mm,3×2.4mm, 2×3.2mm and 1x4mm sets. Chinese seller that has these in the uk.

John

–

[bodgeParticipant @bodge]

**LINK**

Just messing about seeing i have managed to do a link to a web page…………..b

dosnt seem so ,oh well dosent matter anyway………b

Edited By bodge on 25/12/2016 11:38:46

Edited By JasonB on 25/12/2016 12:08:01

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Posted by bodge on 25/12/2016 11:36:23:

**LINK**

Just messing about seeing i have managed to do a link to a web page…………..b

dosnt seem so ,oh well dosent matter anyway………b

Edited By bodge on 25/12/2016 11:38:46

Almost, you just missed the last "t" off the very end of the link when you were copying it   ………..document;

**LINK**

It should have looked like this, but without the space between

www. and scottec………………….

I added the space so the forum software didn't recognise it as a link.

http:// www. scottecatalog.com/scotttec.nsf/74923c9ec562a6fb85256825006eb87d/a7f5c80b3c5a399e8525694a0053a98b?OpenDocument

 

Edited By peak4 on 25/12/2016 11:47:35

[bodgeParticipant @bodge]

**LINK**

one last try if it dont work i give it up ……….b

Edited By JasonB on 25/12/2016 11:52:30

Edited By JasonB on 25/12/2016 11:53:29

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Don't give up, bodge

You just need to be sure that you select the whole of the URL

see post by peak4

MichaelG.

.

This is the full URL:

http://www.scottecatalog.com/scotttec.nsf/74923c9ec562a6fb85256825006eb87d/a7f5c80b3c5a399e8525694a0053a98b?OpenDocument

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 25/12/2016 11:56:59

[bodgeParticipant @bodge]

Hi Peak4

Thanks for the info think i just did the same thing again, will try to retrace my steps but with out hitting the post button, many thanks, that was the page i was trying to link to……………b

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

Your link has the last few characters missing. Maybe there is a limit to the length of the URL.

Link

I can't get the link that I have inserted to work. There seems to be nothing pasted into the link.

I have now found out why. there was a space between the www. and the rest of the URL

Les.

 

 

Edited By Les Jones 1 on 25/12/2016 12:00:40

Edited By Les Jones 1 on 25/12/2016 12:01:53

Edited By Les Jones 1 on 25/12/2016 12:03:14

Edited By Les Jones 1 on 25/12/2016 12:07:41

Edited By Les Jones 1 on 25/12/2016 12:09:26

Edited By Les Jones 1 on 25/12/2016 12:10:27

[bodgeParticipant @bodge]

Hi Micheal

Many thanks for the encouragement , will follow your example and double check i have got it all,

……………b

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

No limit to URL length, not only was the last letter missing but it had been pasted twice, I have altered the link on Badge's post timed 11.47.

 

Edited By JasonB on 25/12/2016 12:11:25

[bodgeParticipant @bodge]

Hi Les

Yes i am pretty sure that is where i went wrong ,i have will have another go and check to see if i can get that all in the URL box,

May be need to expand URL box ? will have a mess about with it for awhile , see if i can get every thing to match should be able to figure it out, i just wont hit post box till i am sure every thing matches next time………b

[bodgeParticipant @bodge]

Hi Jason

I dont think i posted twice , one was the page Micheal linked to the " two stage reg page" , the second attempt was to the the company home page because i thought i had gone about it the wrong way , which i had twice! no less !!

Pretty sure i got it now , must make sure everything matches in the URL box……….b

Well all the links go to the page i was trying to link to now , so will just check the procedure a time or two to see i got i right , just wont hit the post button,…. till. the next time i see something to link to……..b

Edited By bodge on 25/12/2016 13:00:58

Yes i think i got it , i should scrolled the address bar line along a bit to catch those last couple of letters, then pasted to the URL ………….b

Hi Jason not sure how that happened , i guess i must have got something else wrong too ! …..any idea what i got wrong? i"m guessing i must have double tapped some where !……….b 

Edited By bodge on 25/12/2016 13:13:37

Edited By bodge on 25/12/2016 13:22:13

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

As you can see the URL was in there twice

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Bodge, if you're posting from a PC with a proper keyboard, rather than a tablet or smartphone;

Click anywhere in the address bar, then

Control a – to select all the characters

Control c – to copy everything you've just selected

Control v – to paste the link into the relevant box.

p.s. This does seem to be diverting a welding thread a bit; Howabout JasonB splitting it off into a different one for folks to have a practice, and to seek assistance with computery issues in the future.

Happy Christmas to one and all

Bill (from sunny Buxton)

[bodgeParticipant @bodge]

Hi bill

Yes, quite agree , to be honest i was not going to pursue the matter , i got it wrong and was going to give it up after my second attempt anyway …………

though it does clarify two stage regulators………….b

I am still done with posting on this topic anyway , i would not have bothered had i not found the diagram & explanation……………b

Edited By bodge on 25/12/2016 14:00:31

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

You might find F6 highlights and selects the entire address bar.If not try some of the other F keys. As the mouse is then often used to do the rest, then right click – copy and etc.

Some one in the helmet thread reckons I wont need a 2 stage. I'll wait and see / might use the regulator that came with it for the 2nd stage – as I mentioned earlier. Never know I might have a reason for trying one.

The turkey is proving problematic. Breast fine, thighs underdone. First time that has happened.

The Einhell uses a piston. I wasn't sure what oil less used. DC motor with speed reduced by rather a lot. It looks like they chose the motor to fit the space leaving a nice neat top rather than a power bulge.

The outlet is 1/4" bsp so easy to switch to pcl.

John

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Edited By Ajohnw on 25/12/2016 15:41:43

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Ajohnw on 25/12/2016 14:35:19:

The turkey is proving problematic. Breast fine, thighs underdone.

–

Give it a quick blast with the Plasma cutter that will soon crisp them up a bit

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