Car problems

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

Clutch centre cush drive has failed, the central boss in the cluitch is connected to the friction plates by a flex drive system consisting of thin sheet springs and rivets, they do fail, and result in the clutch feeling normal, but no drive. Or as we used to say "ripped the clutch centre out mate"

Phil.

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

could also be failed drive splines in one of the hubs, pop the hub caps of, start it up select a gear and let the clutch out, and get an assistant to see if one of the large nuts in the hub centre is going round, in the old days, Austin Maxi's did this a lot!

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Phil Whitley on 22/06/2017 19:09:11:

Clutch centre cush drive has failed, the central boss in the cluitch is connected to the friction plates by a flex drive system consisting of thin sheet springs and rivets, they do fail, and result in the clutch feeling normal, but no drive. Or as we used to say "ripped the clutch centre out mate"

Having done all the tests, I'm pretty sure this is what happened. We have some potholes that would do justice to the Australian outback in Burton upon Trent – I have honestly never seen such bad roads elsewhere in the Uk. They repaired one four times before it stopped sinking (at one point it was just the right size to grab a tyre, with a six-inch step at the far end (ow). Another one recently repaired has bulged up into a four or five inch high dome of tar on one side.

Anyway I hit one with an almighty bang, it was a day or so later the clutch let go following me overtaking a slow lorry and revving high in low gear to blow the soot out of the exhaust.

So… I've put a deposit down on a banger with 10 months MOT to tide me over while I decide what to do. I can do up the (hides face in embarrasment) Stilo and make a couple of hundred quid back, sell the Mondeo spares or repair and then top up and get a reasonable motor. Or I can put a clutch in the mondy and take things up where I left off. Problem is it has a massive mileage, but low mileage engine, drives like a dream and has all the Ghia toys you can shake a stick at – heated and cooled electric seats! And a killer set of speakers.

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

You don't need to go outback to find car swallowing potholes , the middle of Sydney has what I call goat tracks for roads and some truly spine breaking potholes !

Ian.

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 22/06/2017 22:18:48:

Having done all the tests, I'm pretty sure this is what happened. We have some potholes that would do justice to the Australian outback in Burton upon Trent – I have honestly never seen such bad roads elsewhere in the Uk. They repaired one four times before it stopped sinking (at one point it was just the right size to grab a tyre, with a six-inch step at the far end (ow). Another one recently repaired has bulged up into a four or five inch high dome of tar on one side.

Anyway I hit one with an almighty bang, it was a day or so later the clutch let go following me overtaking a slow lorry and revving high in low gear to blow the soot out of the exhaust.

I suspect part of the almighty bang was the dual mass flywheel getting creamed, (they make quite a clang) which is what took the clutch out.

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

Neill,

I can't tell you what you should do but i can let you in on a few lessons i have learnt with cars:

You can't polish a turd ( well if you can post it to the centre of the earth and wait a few million years you theoretically could ) so if it has big mileage what is next to go ?

Unless you can work on them yourself and enjoy doing it older cars are going to hurt your bank balance big time , i'm fortunate that i can do everything for myself so labour is zero but now i have purchased a brand new car i have seen a different side to things – warranty is a wonderful thing !

Don't think of tomorrow , next week or next year think of the next five years as that is a good general time frame that many use to pay off a new car – so is the hunk o junk gunna be around five years from now ?

Hit MTM up for a company car ! Worth a try at least !

Ian

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Dave Halford on 23/06/2017 12:28:03:

I suspect part of the almighty bang was the dual mass flywheel getting creamed, (they make quite a clang) which is what took the clutch out.

DMF was swapped out before I bought the car.

neil

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by XD 351 on 23/06/2017 13:24:51:

Unless you can work on them yourself and enjoy doing it older cars are going to hurt your bank balance big time ,

That's exactly what I do, but the clutch on a Mondy is probably the worst out there, you need to drop the front sub-frame and then drop the engine.

Neil

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

Thing is Neil, if you like the car, and it is otherwise good condition, and you can face up to doing the repair yourself, it is often better the devil you know!, a new (used) car can be just a different set of equally expensive problems, and if you know that the DMF is good ( and I believe there is a non DMF replacement out there too) it could be time to get yer ands dirty. I drive a mondeo too, mine is the "SHED" model!!

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Well considering I wanted a cheap car as a runabout for a few months, I'm surprised by the Stilo. It does feel a bit dated (largely because it's got a cassette player!) but I've just done a run up to the middle of the peak District to fetch my daughter and three of her friends from a campsite. With five people and a full boot it gave good account of itself on some very steep and windy roads. main problem is the fan is barely working, lots of noise but no air – I have to find the filter, I reckon it hasn't been changed for years. Fuel consumption is almost as good as the Mondeo too, might even be better on a less demanding run, lightly loaded.

Apparently they didn't sell well and Fiat lost money on them, despite getting a 'Schumacher' model, dedicated 'Stilo racing' and skeery Arbarth Multijet models.

It has electric power steering, when you switch on the 'city' mode this becomes as light as a feather and parking in a tight car park becomes fun! Sadly the handling isn't exactly sporty with torsion bar rear suspension(!) and a tendency to roll a bit in curves, but you can't have everything.

Neil

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 23/06/2017 19:49:51:

Posted by Dave Halford on 23/06/2017 12:28:03:

I suspect part of the almighty bang was the dual mass flywheel getting creamed, (they make quite a clang) which is what took the clutch out.

DMF was swapped out before I bought the car.

neil

So what

Mine was a 2 years old car with 24,000 miles on it.

Dave

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Bottom line is that you always pay for servicing. On top of that with a new car you pay depreciation, with an old car you pay maintenance and in between you pay some of both! Now the body killing rust bug is pretty much an endangered species there is no real mechanical reason why almost any half decent car shouldn't do starship miles. Electronic side of things on very modern stuff is another issue entirely.

Best way I know of looking at it is to consider things in 100,000 mile chunks. Once you get up to 100,000 or a similar target mileage how much could it cost you in expected replacements over the next 100,000. Compare that to how much it will cost you to swop your bolide for another that will do another 100,000 with normal servicing and minimal maintenance. Choose the right vehicles and the answers can be very surprising. But you've gotta do your homework. Lots of cars out there with expensive weaknesses that are essentially terminal soon after 100,000. There are good reasons why the miles limit of those lease with a big balloon payment at the end (which we aren't really going to explain properly) plans are so low. If you do go for starship miles option you have to save into a fixit fund. Either to actually fix or to fund replacement.

Being a grumpy low mileage type old fart I run a late Range Rover P38. Comfortable, tough, simple reliable, easy to fix and cheap on parts if need be. At 5,000 miles a year V8 thirst worries me not.

Clive

 

Edited By Clive Foster on 25/06/2017 21:02:18

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

we had a Fiat Punto with electric power steering. Failed after about 4 years, over £600 to get it fixed. Failed again within 12 months so I managed to get them to fit another one for free, then failed again after about another 2 or 3 years, so I traded it in. Turns out it's a well known fault, and in typical Fiat fashion if it lasts longer than the warranty they don't do anything about it. You need muscles like Charles Atlas to steer it when the power steering gives up!

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

When this saga comes to the end, do tell us the punch line Neil! (What was it, or last round up at the local scrapyard?)

Howard

[Antony PowellParticipant @antonypowell28169]

HI Duncan

Fiat steering fault is a dry joint in the motor fix it in 20 minute with a soldering iron !!!

Tony

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Howard Lewis on 26/06/2017 21:59:19:

When this saga comes to the end, do tell us the punch line Neil! (What was it, or last round up at the local scrapyard?)

Howard

No doubt it's the clutch. Neighbour back from holiday today, got his advice on best place for a cheap clutch, but haven't followed it up yet.

Need to see if viable repair or off to the 'Bay

Neil

[vintagengineerParticipant @vintagengineer]

Just sold a Honda CRV with 250K on the clock and only ever replaced service items!

[JonParticipant @jon]

Wouldn't fancy doing the clutch myself on FWD cars, RWD no problem on axle stands.

Problem is the expense, without the specific engine model gonna be looking in region £600 which does seem pretty cheap for Dual Mass Flywheel. May find in that the clutch is a cheapy best left out about £80. Genuine could be around £200?

Have had a few bad experiences with pre DMF clutches especially Borg and Beck, wouldn't hold in 5th accelerating like revving in neutral.
Had a few clutches where the backing plates broke up permanently engaging, fine rev and change gear same with busted cable.

Always have doubts on current DMF clutch, can actually hear it at times and serves no purpose except far greater cost, reduced life just to get better emissions. £1k plus fitting, also a common thing on most diesels doing mileage.

Tried claiming off Staffs council for the pot holes, best of luck everything on site except their phone number or email to claim. Can report a pot hole but would be repaired quicker than they give the number out, had 4 in 6 yrs take out a wishbone, tyre and bend a tie rod £253 a chuck DIY and the inconvenience sorting.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Jon on 29/06/2017 01:00:48:

Wouldn't fancy doing the clutch myself on FWD cars, RWD no problem on axle stands.

I'm hoping the clutch never goes out on my recently purchased Toyota Corolla. You have to pull the entire engine and transmission unit out of the car as a lump before you can split them to change the clutch plate. Yikes.

[David Paterson 4Participant @davidpaterson4]

BacPosted by XD 351 on 23/06/2017 04:00:27:

You don't need to go outback to find car swallowing potholes , the middle of Sydney has what I call goat tracks for roads and some truly spine breaking potholes !

Ian.

 

Back in '81 I went on my first posting to Townsville. I had a '54MGTF at the time and my father advised me not to take it because of road conditions. He lived in Vic Barracks at the time, and I'm pretty sure all of the roads in North Queensland were better than around Moore park and Central station.

PS. Clutch change on that car – remove roof, seats and floor boards and take out through passenger door.

Edited By David Paterson 4 on 29/06/2017 06:34:23

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

Posted by David Paterson 4 on 29/06/2017 06:32:46:

BacPosted by XD 351 on 23/06/2017 04:00:27:

You don't need to go outback to find car swallowing potholes , the middle of Sydney has what I call goat tracks for roads and some truly spine breaking potholes !

Ian.

Back in '81 I went on my first posting to Townsville. I had a '54MGTF at the time and my father advised me not to take it because of road conditions. He lived in Vic Barracks at the time, and I'm pretty sure all of the roads in North Queensland were better than around Moore park and Central station.

PS. Clutch change on that car – remove roof, seats and floor boards and take out through passenger door.

Edited By David Paterson 4 on 29/06/2017 06:34:23

They have not improved trust me!

Now that they are digging up most of the major roads around the CBD for the light rail the roads are nothing more than a series of potholes separated by road plates that are designed to get your vehicle air born and the person in charge of installing these roadplates needs a career change to monster truck track designer !

Remove the roof , floors and seat then take it out through the door – sounds like my old series 2 landy i used to have many years ago !

Ian.

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Posted by Jon on 29/06/2017 01:00:48:

Always have doubts on current DMF clutch, can actually hear it at times and serves no purpose except far greater cost, reduced life just to get better emissions.

No, they are to give refinement (low torsional vibrations) without loss of driveability (low flywheel moment of inertia and mass). Only a very tenuous link to emissions.

Like any component, there is no reason why they can't be designed to outlast the rest of the vehicle. But some vehicle manufacturers aren't very good at designing and developing their products…..

Murray

[Russ BParticipant @russb]

Any chance you can get an inspection camera into the bell housing through a cover to look for any debris?

I'm with John Stevenson, ie hydraulic piston stuck, exactly the same thing happened on my Focus, I just jabbed the clutch pedal a few times and it popped back out.

I think it was caused by the end stop in the pedal box being bent back, allowing the pedal to be pushed to far but I don't know, I just took a bit easier after that.

Now, lets have the truth – you were really racing the young boys in Morrisons car park and doing doughnuts in reverse………. own up…

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Jon on 29/06/2017 01:00:48:

Problem is the expense, without the specific engine model gonna be looking in region £600 which does seem pretty cheap for Dual Mass Flywheel. May find in that the clutch is a cheapy best left out about £80. Genuine could be around £200?

LOL! £640 for a plain clutch replacement as it already has the DMF removed, £700 if it needed a standard flywheel replacement and 'don't bother asking' if you want a DMF…

It's probably the highest labour of any common car.

Neil

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Jon on 29/06/2017 01:00:48:

Tried claiming off Staffs council for the pot holes, best of luck everything on site except their phone number or email to claim. Can report a pot hole but would be repaired quicker than they give the number out, had 4 in 6 yrs take out a wishbone, tyre and bend a tie rod £253 a chuck DIY and the inconvenience sorting.

I haven't seen roads like staffordshire's anywhere else in the UK.

They are finally closing the main road from the A38 to town for four weeks to fix it properly, there will be total chaos with lorries on Branston Road and on top of the tatenhill diversion.

They are threatening to fix the flyover at Barton under Needwood, the only road where I've seen cars regularly drive on the wrong side of the road to avoid the massive potholes.

It wouldn't be so bad only past experience suggests the repairs won't last a month…

[Author]

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