Are Stevenson’s ER Blocks Useful

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 24/10/2017 17:42:34:

For clarity, the 5C blocks aren't new, John's idea was to produce ER ones as so many people have ER collet sets already.

Neil

It's a good idea, the E.R collets we've had in this workshop!

Yet I always need to groan when I see all the useful gadgets that are made only in 5C.

Michael W

[jimmy bParticipant @jimmyb]

very useful!

I've ended up with ER40 blocks. For small work I use ER16 collet holder in the ER40.

Jim

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Michael-w on 24/10/2017 22:43:21:

Yet I always need to groan when I see all the useful gadgets that are made only in 5C.

Michael W

Time to get a 5C to ER adapter then

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Posted by Michael Briggs on 24/10/2017 21:55:35:

I have had success holding short lengths in ER collets by putting a short slug of same sized material in the other end of the collet.

Snap… me too

+ 1 for all other comments… I have one of each, with the hexagonal one virtually set up in my 3 jaw chuck for most of the stuff I do.

George.

[Anonymous]

I have square and hexagonal blocks for 5C collets. I don't use them much as they have two issues. One I find it difficult to get the work tight enough so it doesn't move under cutting forces. Second, when you rotate the block you lose X-axis reference, which is a right PITA if you're trying to mill a sqaure or hexagon. It may well be that the ER versions would solve the first problem, but not the second.

While I sometimes use ER11 and ER20 collets for tool holding on the CNC mill, I don't use them for workholding on the lathe, so I'd need to buy a set of collets to use the bigger holders. I've never missed not having the ER blocks, so won't be rushing out to buy.

Andrew

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

"Second, when you rotate the block you lose X-axis reference, which is a right PITA if you're trying to mill a sqaure or hexagon ?"

I use a stop to the rear of the block with the block horizontal coaxial with the X travel.

I don't wonder at Andrew not getting them tight though. He likes to take 'normous cuts.

regards Martin

[Anonymous]

Posted by Martin Kyte on 25/10/2017 11:08:58:

I use a stop to the rear of the block with the block horizontal coaxial with the X travel.

Good point; another disadvantage of the 5C system is that the collet closer is on the back so making it difficult to get a reference.

Andrew

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Use the front face and a flush fitting vice stop, should still be able to use the back end with the stop against one corner of the block as the closers being square don't cover the whole block.

Andrew, I mentioned earlier that as the nut overhangs the edges of an ER block you can push the block into the vice until the underside of the nut hits the jaw and use that as your ref. back end is also plain so easy to use any type of vice stop against that.

[ChrisHParticipant @chrish]

I have looked at these block in the past and wondered briefly how they were used but without giving much thought to them as I don't have ER collets yet, (although that will change shortly as my collets are some obscure German ones generally unobtainable anywhere so I can't make up the shortfall in my collection other than by making them myself – it will be cheaper and quicker to change to an ER system which will have better holding power and holding range).

Now I see clearly how they are used – DOH! I'm going to need to get one now with the other ER stuff!

Chris

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 25/10/2017 10:53:50:

I have square and hexagonal blocks for 5C collets. I don't use them much as they have two issues. One I find it difficult to get the work tight enough so it doesn't move under cutting forces. Second, when you rotate the block you lose X-axis reference, which is a right PITA if you're trying to mill a sqaure or hexagon. It may well be that the ER versions would solve the first problem, but not the second.

Vice depth stop OR push the ER block back until the closing nut contacts the vice jaws for consistent location.

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Variations on the [non ER] theme:

Grabbed from somewhere on the web … but [sorry] no image credits recorded.

.

MichaelG.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I like the idea of the larger closing nut on the Levin one Michael. more to grip so you can tighten things up better and if used in that Vee guide acts as a stop to set final depth of cut. I can see it would be an ideal setup if you had a lot of screws to slot.

It should not be too hard to make a similar nut to fit 5C collets

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

One might add that these particular ones will soon be in short supply, or even at a premium, after the sad passing of JS – unless someone else takes up the manufacture. If I did not already have a pair, I would be ordering PDQ.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I'm almost certain they are JS design but Ketan has them made elsewhere.

Infact Ketan has recently lowered the price and does a package deal complete with a nut of your choice at a good price.

Edited By JasonB on 25/10/2017 16:37:53

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 25/10/2017 15:33:51:

Variations on the [non ER] theme:

Those could be approximated by clamping a v-block to the cross or top slide, with suitable packing + square collet block.

Neil

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

For those having problems keeping their blocks registered on teh x-axis here are a few methods that can be used.

Vice stop against the back of the block. Some commercial ones may be too thick but my home made one works fine as that only has a 1/16" lip.

If you use a precision type chuck then a flush stop screwed into one of the holes provided will give the front of the block something to butt upto

The vice stop can also be used on the end of a jaw.

And as mentioned a couple of times the back of the nut on an ER block makes a good stop.

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Or you could buy an old flat iron (50p at a Car Boot) Neil and machine it so that it holds the ER block at your lathes centre height… my EW in this case…

Still a work in progress but you will get the general idea. It really started out as just a practice piece (for the shaper) and it was a bit 'porous' in places – but it occurred to me that this would be a useful application for it. Still needs a swing away clamp, holes for the EW boring table T-slots and a bit at the back so both the block and the work can be set repeatably.

Regards,

IanT

Edited By IanT on 25/10/2017 19:10:50

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by JasonB on 25/10/2017 16:35:00:

I'm almost certain they are JS design but Ketan has them made elsewhere.

Yes, here is the story behind it. John was a great practical ideas person. On one of my regular visits to Johns place we would discuss ideas over lunch at the local chippy. He would come up with a new idea, sketch it up and we would explore the possibility of getting the product made, keeping in mind that such a product would need to be made under a certain cost, with certain projected sales targets. I would take the sketch, go back home, and explore the viability, going back and forth, until we were both happy. He would then make the prototype. Then pass it to our Alan or the factory which ARC appointed, to come up with final production drawings, which he and I would check, make changes as necessary and approve. ARC would then review making costs based on MOQs and sales potential and discuss with John. If we both feel the project may be viable, ARC takes the gamble and puts into production.

The key guiding figure for the idea and development was John. There are many people he came across in life who could tell you similar stories. Many of his ideas went into production with some of the other people in a similar way, but there was no mention of John in the development of such ideas. He never wanted money for this in the form of licence or royalty. He was paid as a consultant/sub-contractor for his time and prototype. Of coarse over time ARCs relationship with John became very close, and there were many favours done both ways. When ARC launched the first product he had developed/worked on, he was pleasantly surprised that we named it 'Stevensons'. From our point of view, we wanted to give him recognition. The marketing publicity followed naturally as an additional benefit.

The same trend of 'Stevensons' followed there after with every product ARC developed with him.

Rest assured, for each successful project we worked with John over the years, there were countless other projects which we worked on together which failed to see the light of day, for some technical or financial cost reason. There are one or two project he was working on with us before he died which might yet progress into production in the coming years may be, but it is difficult to say if and when.

Ketan at ARC

[Nick HulmeParticipant @nickhulme30114]

Ketan,

Were there any non-viable commercial projects which might be viable home projects?

If there were, subject to the approval of John's family of course, perhaps they might make good articles for the magazine, subject to finding a willing engineer to execute, photograph and document a "Stevenson's Project"

– Nick

[Involute CurveParticipant @involutecurve]

I've been meaning to get a couple of these for a while and this thread reminded me, so I just ordered a couple from Arc. which lead to other stuff getting added to the cart……

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Nick Hulme on 26/10/2017 14:32:05:

Ketan,

Were there any non-viable commercial projects which might be viable home projects?

The Stevenson self cleaning tea mug was not that viable

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by Nick Hulme on 26/10/2017 14:32:05:

Ketan,

Were there any non-viable commercial projects which might be viable home projects?

If there were, subject to the approval of John's family of course, perhaps they might make good articles for the magazine, subject to finding a willing engineer to execute, photograph and document a "Stevenson's Project"

– Nick

Sorry for the late response Nick. At present I can't think of anything, but if something comes to mind, I will refer it to Neil.

Thanks, Ketan.

[thaiguzziParticipant @thaiguzzi]

Yabbut, when will someone make and sell square and hex ER collets? That's another advantage 5C has.

I have a pretty much complete set of 3C, some square, most round, no hex, the Stent T&CG has a 3C tool holder, the Boxford takes 3C and my mill uses homemade TG 3C hex and square collet holders. Only thing wrong with 3C is the 1/2" capacity…

Sorry, back to the OP's question – yes, very useful. Nothing quicker for putting a hex on some round. Before I made these, my only option was the RT, which, by the time it was on the mill table, bolted down, chuck fitted, etc, was painfully slow in comparison.

Edited By thaiguzzi on 28/10/2017 11:14:09

[Andy PughParticipant @andypugh44463]

I only just found this thread (looking for octagonal blocks, as it happens).

As this seems to be a compilation thread, here is a link to another way to use the blocks

https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=131421

Not for work-holding at all, but to use a coaxial indicator as an edge-finder.

Edited By Andy Pugh on 04/12/2018 15:17:44

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by JasonB on 26/10/2017 17:25:48:

Posted by Nick Hulme on 26/10/2017 14:32:05:

Ketan,

Were there any non-viable commercial projects which might be viable home projects?

The Stevenson self cleaning tea mug was not that viable

ROFL!

I think the basic theory was that any dirt would be carefully coated over with a layer of tannin

[Author]

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