Bad design, or am I missing something?

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Bad design, or am I missing something?

Home Forums Beginners questions Bad design, or am I missing something?

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  • #807882
    half whit
    Participant
      @half-whit

      Hi All,

      I am planning to make the two cylinder oscillator shown in the two diagrams. I have a similar vertical boiler which I will build into the model.

      I don’t anticipate too many problems in the build but I  am puzzled by one aspect of the design. The text from the author (Muncaster) specfies a crankshaft supported at each end by a pair of pedestals. This can be seen in 1/2 plan view of the engine. The center of the shaft approx 1″ long and 5/16″ diameter is unsupported. Why? This looks all wrong to me, but am I  missing something. Maybe something in the dynamics of the engine?
      <p style=”text-align: right;”>Geoff20250719_090025</p>

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      #807886
      JasonB
      Moderator
        @jasonb

        It’s a lot easier to get a crankshaft running between two bearings than three, particularly given the equipment that the average beginner back in 1912 would have had.

        I also doubt that those little cylinders are going to put serious load into the shaft. Think about the high speed enclosed twin engines like the Stuart MTBs and Sirius all twin cylinder with no central support and they were good for 4500rpm and worked under load.

        #807889
        Michael Gilligan
        Participant
          @michaelgilligan61133

          Given this gem of an understatement … I would think even two bearings might present a challenge to some in the original cohort of builders !

          .

          IMG_0905

          .

           

          Assuming you have the tools and the skill to get it all aligned … adding a third bearing seems a valid improvement.

          MichaelG.

          .

          Edit: Maestro Jason beat me to it

          #808058
          half whit
          Participant
            @half-whit

            Hi

            Thanks for the replies.  On reflection the crankshaft does look robust and would survive without a central pedestal.  I may cut apertures on each side of the platform leaving an area to fit an optional  “aesthetic” pedestal.

            From muncasters text I assume the cranks will be set at 90 to each other which with D/A cylinders will give a self starting engine?

            Is there any other reason why the cranks are set at 90?

            Cheers geoff

            #808061
            Nigel Graham 2
            Participant
              @nigelgraham2

              Not only starting.

              The 90º crank-setting was normal for twin-cylinder steam-engines, to aid starting in use albeit making balancing in manufacture, more difficult.

               

              Its other reason was to give more even torque per revolution.

              The maximum torque from one cylinder comes around mid-stroke, during the minimum, dead-centre, point for the other.

              Since the engine is both double-cylinder and double-acting the resultant torque approaches some constancy through the full 360º: a polar plot of effort against angle looks a bit like a four-leafed clover. The flywheel inertia smooths the curve to some extent, making such engines very good for driving directly-coupled dynamos and similar duties.

              #808080
              half whit
              Participant
                @half-whit

                Wow Nigel,

                That’s a great post, details expressed perfectly.

                I sensed the 90 degree cranks setting had something to do with better engine dynamics but couldn’t put in to words like you have.

                Thanks again

                Geoff

                #808120
                Julie Ann
                Participant
                  @julieann

                  Apart from making the engine self starting having the cranks at 90 degrees doesn’t increase torque. What it does do is spread the torque impulses around the circle. First, consider that the rotational inertia of the flywheel means that the flywheel is essentially a lowpass filter with respect to torque impulses on the crankshaft.

                  With the two cylinders in sync there are two impulses per revolution. With the cranks at 90 degrees there are four (smaller) impulses per revolution. Given that the impulses are smaller and there are double the number (double the frequency) the flywheel is more effective at ironing out the torque fluctuations.

                  Julie

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