Rotary table question.

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Rotary table question.

Home Forums Beginners questions Rotary table question.

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  • #803138
    larry phelan 1
    Participant
      @larryphelan1

      Good day all,

      I wish to make a plate for my r/t to give 14 holes. { 90 t0 1 }

      I have made a plate from the existing  “B” plate which gives the correct number of holes. What I want to know is, how do I use this second plate to  drill the job ?

      I am missing out on something here, but what ?

      Please excuse if this is a stupid question.

      I seem to remember reading about making a plate from an existing one in order to make it more accurate.

      What am I doing wrong ?

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      #803144
      Dave S
      Participant
        @daves59043

        I’m not totally clear in what you have done, but I think the answer is you need to put the new plate onto the index position and then just use it.

         

        Dave

        #803150
        Bazyle
        Participant
          @bazyle

          You don’t often need to make a second more accurate plate unless your first is made by drilling randomly while drunk. The process improves accuracy by the factor of the worm but that applies when making the job too so probably going to be accurate enough. Presumably you did 6 turns and 9 holes on a 21 hole plate.
          If you want the trouble of mounting and using your 14 hole plate you now do 6 turns and 6 holes – you have reduced your number of plate holes from 21 to 14 so 2/3 the number so the final rotation is 2/3 of 9 ie 6.
          happy counting.

          useful link
          https://www.cgtk.co.uk/metalwork/calculators/dividing

           

          #803152
          larry phelan 1
          Participant
            @larryphelan1

            Thank you Dave, that,s exactly what I did, but I  was not sure how many turns to go or how many holes to use. I think  Bazyle,s reply is more helpful since that is what I actually did. I think my mistake was that I did not know about reducing the number of holes. We live and learn [sometimes ]

            I will have another go at it later. In the meantime, thank you both for replying, as they say “Every little helps “

            #803164
            larry phelan 1
            Participant
              @larryphelan1

              Just an update to the above, I have just done another “Test Run ” to check where I went wrong. I was expecting to get 14 holes right away, but of course it does not work that way, you still have to make 6 full turns plus so many holes. This time round, I followed Bazyle,s advice but copped on that I needed 6 Spaces, not 6 holes !

              The result was Success !!!

              So, thank you both, once again.

              #803184
              Martin Connelly
              Participant
                @martinconnelly55370

                It is still six as the hole count but you have to remember that the starting hole is zero, just like the end of a steel rule is zero but mostly people don’t think about that because it is not usually marked with a zero.

                Martin C

                #803246
                Howard Lewis
                Participant
                  @howardlewis46836

                  If you have a Rotary Table with a 90:1 ratio, you should not need to make a new plate or any extra holes.

                  The corrected chart (The one supplied with my Vertex HV6 showed inaccuracies and omissions) shows that 14 divisions can be obtained.

                  14 divisions are obtained by using the 21 hole circle on the B Plate,  rotating by 6 turns and 9 holes for each division.

                  Howard

                  #803256
                  larry phelan 1
                  Participant
                    @larryphelan1

                    Yes Howard, you are quite correct.

                    I may have confused the Forum since what I really wanted to make was a plate/disc which I could use as an index plate to drill 14 holes in other workpieces. I can see how this could be done using a horizontal drill m/c but not a standard benchtop drill.

                    So, back to the drawing board.

                    And in point of fact, there is nothing much to be gained by using the 21 hole circle or the 14 hole plate..

                    #803267
                    Charles Lamont
                    Participant
                      @charleslamont71117
                      On larry phelan 1 Said:

                      Just an update to the above, I have just done another “Test Run ” to check where I went wrong. I was expecting to get 14 holes right away, but of course it does not work that way, you still have to make 6 full turns plus so many holes. This time round, I followed Bazyle,s advice but copped on that I needed 6 Spaces, not 6 holes !

                      The result was Success !!!

                      So, thank you both, once again.

                      In computer coding, this is called a fencepost error. (6 rails, 7 posts)

                      #803276
                      Dave S
                      Participant
                        @daves59043

                        The 2 most common errors in software are out by 1 errors…

                         

                        IGMC

                        Dave

                        #803290
                        Pete
                        Participant
                          @pete41194

                          I suspect it depends on how some visualize or even count certain things. But I do the same and count the spaces instead of holes and then use the next hole after that last space. For whatever reason and how my own thinking processes work, that seems more mistake proof than using the holes. Dividing using full or partial rotations and those division plates isn’t quite as intuitive as it seems without doing a bit of practice first.

                          I think it’s also worth understanding and depending on how your first generation plates were produced such as using a really good cnc or not. A second generation of plates may or may not be more accurate, or even worth the effort unless its for a plate with different hole counts than the OEM plates already have and the division number required isn’t possible with those.

                          There’s also inevitable inaccuracies in the worms and worm wheels. And simply because of how there manufactured. My Vertex are only single pointed for the worms, and milled wheel teeth. Much better accuracy would result with high precision form grinding and possibly lapping to reduce and average out further errors after that. Costs for the finished product would be multiple times higher though. Drilled plate holes are also subject to the same issues as any drilled hole has for it’s exact location. Mathematically, a second generation of plates would be more accurate by the gear ratio, but that doesn’t factor in anything else that’s involved. So far I’ve not needed any better accuracy than what I already have, but not everyone is the same.

                           

                           

                          #803320
                          Bazyle
                          Participant
                            @bazyle

                            Joseph Whitworth reputedly understood the problem and arranged his factories to use dividing heads with gearboxes that could be set for the necessary turns & fractions (one to think about). Then the production worker only had to do one full turn of the handle each time – no error and faster = good for production.

                            #803422
                            larry phelan 1
                            Participant
                              @larryphelan1

                              Smart man, that,s more or less what I had in mind !

                              #803434
                              Howard Lewis
                              Participant
                                @howardlewis46836

                                So, it seems that what Larry wanted was to drill 14 equally spaced holes in a plate, to act as jig to enable him to drill other components in like manner..

                                So to get the 14 equally spaced holes, using a Dividing Head or Rotary Table with a 90:1 ratio, you fit the B plate and then rotate the handle by 6 turns and 9 holes on the 21 hole circle, for each hole, to drill 14 equally spaced holes, on whatever P C D you choose, to make a jig that can be used to drill 14 equally spaced holes on other workpieces.

                                Or am I confused?.

                                If you want greater precision, make  a duplicate plate with 21 holes, (4 turns and 6 holes on the B plate) and then fit that, in place of the B Plate, and it use to make the 14 equally spaced holes (Again 6 turns and 9 holes) for the jig. The duplicate plate should have any errors from the original operation reduced by a factor of 90, which should provide sufficient accuracy.

                                Howard

                                #803444
                                larry phelan 1
                                Participant
                                  @larryphelan1

                                  No Howard, you are not confused. I thought it might be possible to produce a plate which could be used just for indexing, not so much as a jig.

                                  The one I made could be used as such if the drilling was being done in a horizontal manner, easy enough to plug in the pin to each hole as required, the PCD on the job should not be affected. It would be a different matter to do this on a bench drill.

                                  It was just an interesting exercise, nothing lost, much gained.

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