. I thought it looked familiar, Sam …

Just looked back through my eMails, and found that we discussed it in April 2017

I failed you then, and thus far continue to do so

MichaelG.

[This posting has been removed]

Deleted

Edited By Nick Thorpe on 09/08/2019 11:26:29

Those symbols look so familiar, I am sure I have seen them before, just cant remember where.

I have looked through astrology and elements none of those, very frustrating.

Adrian

I know nothing about clocks, but those marks are familiar, spooky, isn't it.

.

I don't know what they are called, or whether they conform to a standard, but I'm almost certain that these marks are 'shorthand' to aid the painter when producing the 'signature'

If I'm correct: The cross-bars indicate the height of the capital, and the curves indicate the width.

Printers and Typographers use the terms en and em to describe widths … note any similarity ?

.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 10/08/2019 09:47:15

Sorry to pour cold water on Signwriter Shorthand! Although the symbols look promising, don't they relate to signing as used by deaf people to communicate rather than sign writing as in shop facades and clock faces? They're a 20th century innovation unlikely to be on a 19th century clock.

Like seeing castles in the flames there's always danger of joining the dots wrongly, so I'm not convinced my Hebrew suggestion is right either. Note how I mistook 'G' for 'Fr'! However they do resemble the characters Alef, Kaf, Yod, Pay and Bet turned by 90°. One character is too damaged to guess.

First right way up, then turned as on the clock:

Any Hebrew scholars out there?

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 11/08/2019 08:24:48

I like my idea the clock face has been "signed" by the painter. Sound engineers sometimes scratched personal messages in the blank shiny space on vinyl records just after the final track. I remember one 45 signed 'Porkies Prime Cut'. Perhaps it's instinctive to personalise one's achievements, just as dogs pee on lampposts to mark their territory, but it may not be meaningful unless you're Picasso…

Another theory, Sam asked if the broad strokes on his Latin numerals were printed. The rest of the clock markings look hand painted to me. My guess is the numerals were first outlined by hand, and then something like a rubber stamp was used to add consistent broad strokes to embolden the straight bits. Printed yes, but not by a machine. Comparing the magnified outline of several broad strokes might prove the point because a stamp could have a consistent flaw that's repeated on all of them.

Dave

Thanks for the link, Daffy Duck etched in miniature on an Integrated Circuit indeed!

I like your idea too, not least because it explains the three horizontal lines. Is it a coincidence that in this list of modern proofreading symbols, 3 bars means 'Put this in Capitals'?

Sam's question has me wondering if other old clock faces ever feature strange markings? A quick scan through the catalogues of antique clock sellers was disappointing because the photos aren't good enough to decode the interesting blurs.

Dave

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I am in no position to argue with a man of your experience, Nick

But I do have a few observations [assuming that your reply was not meant exclusively for Dave]

The marks are over all of the 'feature' [for want of a better word] capitals in the Signature [i.e.the bit that is particular to this job.

My hypothesis is that:

1. the three lines show these to be 'full height' [wheras the rest of the signature is in 'small caps']
2. the marks below the lines show the width of that large capital, and also the style of the subscript, etc.that accompanies it.
3. the marks are the dial-painter's own … for his convenience [just like we use 'construction lines' in drawing].

Looking at them in context … I feel that I can almost 'read' them myself, intuitively.

MichaelG.