drilling a bearing ball

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drilling a bearing ball

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  • #548547
    gerry madden
    Participant
      @gerrymadden53711

      I want to make another measuring probe like the ones in the picture below.

      dscn8185.jpg

      My first attempt to simply turn one up was ok but highlighted the need for the tip to be very spherical. So for Mk2 I want to put a hole bearing ball (1/8~1/4&quot and glue in on to the turned body. The hardness and smoothness of the ball will be advantageous also.

      Just looking for some guidance or comments on the following:-

      1. I assume I'll need a carbide drill. With my speed limited to 3000RPM approximately how long should I expect this to take ? 5 mins or 50 mins ?

      2. I will probably need to grind a small flat on it before drilling, but rather than do this off-hand then have the challenge of then re-holding the ball with flat in the right place and at right-angles to the drill, would it be better to attempt mill a flat with a carbide mill ?. I just cant see this going well …… actually I have just realised, I have a diamond wheel I can mount in the mill so forget this one !

      3. … or should I forget carbide and just go for a small diamond encrusted drill?

      I have seen torroidal shaped rubies for sale for this purpose but perhaps that can wait for Mk3, in the event that Mk2 is still lacking in some way.

      Gerry

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      #28205
      gerry madden
      Participant
        @gerrymadden53711
        #548548
        JasonB
        Moderator
          @jasonb

          Unless you specifically need a hard ball get a stainless steel one as they can be drilled with HSS, spotting drill usually works for me to get the hole located and form a dimple for the drill bit.

          Annealing and rehardening after drilling a steel ball is another option

          Edited By JasonB on 06/06/2021 13:03:43

          #548550
          Ady1
          Participant
            @ady1

            Holding it in a collet might make things easier

            #548554
            JasonB
            Moderator
              @jasonb

              Yes I usually do them in a collet or top hat bush

              Small hard one being annealed

              After drilling 1.0mm

              #548559
              noel shelley
              Participant
                @noelshelley55608

                Had to drill 3/8" holes in 2" balls, used carbide from tracy ! done in a myford S7. Noel

                #548594
                old mart
                Participant
                  @oldmart

                  I would run the solid carbide drill, preferably a stub, at slow speed, by hand. A flat would be an advantage if you can be sure it is perpendicular to the axis. Solid carbide drills come in various types designed for different hardness steels, I would look at the drills from Cutwel, or APT.

                  If using a lathe, with the ball held in a collet, you could hold a diamond lap square in the toolpost and use the cross slide to rub a flat on the ball. It would take some time depending how fine the grit was.

                  Edited By old mart on 06/06/2021 20:24:46

                  #548645
                  Paul Lousick
                  Participant
                    @paullousick59116

                    Even if you manage to drill a hole thru the bearing ball and glue it onto the turned body, how concentric will it be to the body ?

                    Drilling a hole is not an accurate machining operation and attempting to do this on very small parts is even more difficult. (1/8"-1/4" diameter ball)

                    If the probe is used for measuring it's better to turn everything in one operation for accuracy. Use a ball turning attachment if if you want a better sphere.

                    Paul.

                    #548652
                    Luker
                    Participant
                      @luker

                      I had to replace a lost probe point a few years back. Normal inner ball from a std bearing was annealed similar to how Jason suggested; the only difference, it was heated on some dry sand (with a little dishwashing liq) and pushed in with a wooden dowel. Was drilled and tapped using HSS. Any concentricity issues are inherently solved by the small centre drill breaking, but even with a wobbler type probe if you centre it with your finger on the ball all will be good…

                      probe point.jpg

                      #548655
                      Tony Pratt 1
                      Participant
                        @tonypratt1
                        Posted by Paul Lousick on 07/06/2021 03:32:18:

                        Even if you manage to drill a hole thru the bearing ball and glue it onto the turned body, how concentric will it be to the body ?

                        Drilling a hole is not an accurate machining operation and attempting to do this on very small parts is even more difficult. (1/8"-1/4" diameter ball)

                        If the probe is used for measuring it's better to turn everything in one operation for accuracy. Use a ball turning attachment if if you want a better sphere.

                        Paul.

                        I can't see that concentricity is relevant with this application?

                        Tony

                        #548656
                        David George 1
                        Participant
                          @davidgeorge1

                          I used to repair probe and dial indicator tips. I would machine a dimple in the end of the item on the lathe, I would tin the end of the item with soft solder. The ball would be put in the dimple and a small wooden piece would hold ball down into the dimple, flux and reheated and soldered. I would then clean up the solder around joint and use. The joint was stronger than I first thought for soft solder but very few came off except by crashing into the job. The smallest I did was 1/32 diamiter ball. The balls were still hard and not affected by the heat of soldering.

                          David

                          Edited By David George 1 on 07/06/2021 08:27:02

                          #548663
                          Nigel Graham 2
                          Participant
                            @nigelgraham2

                            If you needed to drill a batch of balls, drill a countersunk hole in the end of a short bar but instead of soldering the ball in, hold it by a suitable union (or union-pattern) nut on the bar's appropriately threaded exterior. This will take a modest range of ball diameters.

                            (Thinking on, and digressing somewhat, a variation using a counter-bored hole may give an alternative to the lantern chucks discussed on this forum not long ago, for shortening screws and rivets. In this case interpose a bush drilled to slide on the fastening's shank between its head and the inside of the union nut. )

                            #548685
                            gerry madden
                            Participant
                              @gerrymadden53711

                              Thanks all for your comments. There are some good pointers there and things i hadnt considered.

                              I might try annealing idea but then I will probably want to re-harden. Whether that causes a crack or two remains to be seen. Its a little more likely after its had a hole put in it because the residual stresses are less well balanced. But lets just see, it might well be fine. If it doesn't go well then I'll go the carbide route.

                              I need the hardness because I'm measuring to a couple of microns and if the steel is soft one can easily indent or flat the ball by this amount by a little bit of careless handling much over time.

                              As regards concentricity, as Tony suggests this shouldn't be a major concern in this application as I'm just measuring diameters of holes. I simply add the probe tip diameter to the measured diameter. But in any case just to be sure I will match the probe shaft to that of the hole in the ball after I've made it in order to minimise any eccentricity.

                              I'll come back to you and let you know how its gone after my attempts.

                              Gerry

                              #548734
                              old mart
                              Participant
                                @oldmart

                                I have seen some ruby tipped indicator probe ends on ebay, made in China, similar to the one in Luker's photo. I cannot say how accurately spherical the rubies are. The ruby tipped type for CNN machines also come up for sale regularly, I don't know how expensive they are.

                                #548747
                                David George 1
                                Participant
                                  @davidgeorge1

                                  These are a few I still have that were soft soldered in place.

                                  20210607_172249.jpg

                                  It is easy and well worth trying as the ball dosn't soften and and it would only take me half an hour to solder into place after dimpleing the stem. The one on the left has two flats ground on after soldering to get close to a step on a 0.015 " shoulder with my dial indicator.

                                  David

                                   

                                   

                                  Edited By David George 1 on 07/06/2021 19:13:46

                                  #548749
                                  Emgee
                                  Participant
                                    @emgee
                                    Posted by gerry madden on 07/06/2021 12:42:11:

                                    Concentricity, as Tony suggests this shouldn't be a major concern in this application as I'm just measuring diameters of holes. I simply add the probe tip diameter to the measured diameter. But in any case just to be sure I will match the probe shaft to that of the hole in the ball after I've made it in order to minimise any eccentricity.

                                    I'll come back to you and let you know how its gone after my attempts.

                                    Gerry

                                    When using an indicator to measure or centre a bored hole it is best to rotate the ball 180 degrees after taking the 1st reading, any eccentricity is then used on the opposing face being measured/clocked.
                                    Heidenhain incorporate this method into centering programs by rotating the spindle automatically.

                                    Emgee

                                    #548761
                                    duncan webster 1
                                    Participant
                                      @duncanwebster1

                                      A recognised technique for attaching thermocouples is to clamp them in place and discharge a big capacitor through the joint, thus spot welding the wire to the job. I wonder if this would work for attaching a ball to a probe? If anyone gets it to work let us know!

                                      Edited By duncan webster on 07/06/2021 20:50:06

                                      #551629
                                      gerry madden
                                      Participant
                                        @gerrymadden53711

                                        Jason, I was back on this one today and decided to try both methods discussed. So I've ordered carbide drills and in the meantime thought I would try annealing some 5mm balls. This didn't go too well. I heated two balls to bright redness and held them in that condition for about 1 or 2 minutes. Then over a similar time period let them cool down. When I tried to drill the first one with my favourite HSS spotting drill it made no impression at all. A quick check under the microscope showed the drill was now blunt and there was hardly a mark on the ball so it simply hadn't softened.

                                        Clearly I need to tweek the annealing process. What should I be doing ?

                                        The other issue is that the balls become quite scaled over from being heated, much more than I expected. Did you have a easy way to remove this scale without too much material loss ?

                                        In the carbide drill website it said something to the effect that chucks should have a runout of less than 5um ! I think this is a subtle way of saying expect to break some drills

                                        Gerry

                                        #551635
                                        Tony Pratt 1
                                        Participant
                                          @tonypratt1

                                          2 mins isn't long enough for annealing, I believe hot sand has been mentioned as a way of slowing the cooling?

                                          Tony

                                          #551654
                                          Macolm
                                          Participant
                                            @macolm

                                            A method I have not got round to trying to make a through hole is to mount the ball concentrically in the headstock, and use a Dremel or similar with a diamond point. The axis of the point rotation needs to be offset to just overlap the spindle centreline so that there is good cutting velocity over all the area of the desired hole.

                                            Finesse will be needed and of course progress will be slow, but it may work. Either finish to diameter with additional passes of the point, or locktite in an insert.

                                            #551660
                                            Macolm
                                            Participant
                                              @macolm

                                              Repost:- edited to clarify.

                                              A method I have not got round to trying for making a through hole is to mount the ball concentrically in the headstock, and use a Dremel or similar with a diamond point. The axis of the Dremel needs to be offset so that the point OD just overlaps the spindle centreline to provide good cutting velocity over all the area of the desired hole.

                                              Finesse will be needed and of course progress will be slow, but it may work. Either finish to diameter with additional passes of the point, or locktite in an insert.

                                              #551686
                                              noel shelley
                                              Participant
                                                @noelshelley55608

                                                I have put holes in ball bearings by using copper wire and a spark eroder. Noel.

                                                #551692
                                                John Haine
                                                Participant
                                                  @johnhaine32865

                                                  Something is trying to tell you that a spherical tip is too hard. Why spherical anyway? For a probe concentricity is needed and that is easier if you turn the tip cylindrical.

                                                  #552055
                                                  gerry madden
                                                  Participant
                                                    @gerrymadden53711

                                                    A metallurgist colleague advised me that for 'perfect' annealing of 100Cr6 ball steel, the cooling-down process should theoretically take 25 mins. Since this long time period would only result in more scale formation (which I would then have to remove and mess up the diameter in the process) I decided to experiment with the carbide drill today.

                                                    First I used a 4mm carbide spotting drill. Strangely this really didn't seem to make an impression. Well in truth it made a pin-prick of a mark but it didn't seem to want to go any further. I checked the point of the drill under the microscope and didn't see any obvious damage.

                                                    Expecting to get another poor result I then popped my new 1.5mm carbide drill in a collet and tried again. Immediately I could tell it was cutting. I ran the mill at 3000RPM and just maintained a light finger force on the quill lever. After about 10 minutes it was through.

                                                    Perhaps I could have done it quicker by applying more force but these drills are easily broken so I was happy to take my time. The hole quality was superb too. I didn't need this but its always nice to have.

                                                    dscn8214.jpg

                                                    So that was the trial. As was suggested I held the ball in a collet. My centre was found by eye but I have to admit now that it wasn't perfect. What I plan to do for the next time around is drill a 'vee' socket in a bit of aluminium and then glue a ball into this. If I keep the X and Y controls locked that should keep me on the perfect centre for drilling the ball.

                                                    Thanks to all ideas contributors.

                                                    Gerry.

                                                    #554066
                                                    gerry madden
                                                    Participant
                                                      @gerrymadden53711

                                                      Thanks all for your thoughts and guidance on how to drill holes in balls. After some trial and error I think I have perfected the art a little further and just to help the next one along that wants to do something similar here is the technique that seemed to work well for me.

                                                      1) Hold a small piece of a relatively soft material like aluminium in the mill vice. Check the vice is secure and the X and Y slides are locked solidly.

                                                      2) Using a conventional centre-drill make a hole in the material. Select a size of centre drill that will ensure that the ball doesn't rest on the entrance to the cylindrical portion of the hole. The ball will be much more stable when it sits in the 'V' portion.

                                                      3) Put the ball in the hole then, protecting it with a piece of soft metal to prevent surface damage, give the ball a bit a bit of a thump with a hammer. This will plastically deform the soft seating material and increase the area of contact of the ball in its 'socket'.

                                                      4) Remove the ball and put a little super-glue on the seating. Replace the ball and press it into its socket for about 30m seconds.

                                                      5) If you still haven't moved those X and Y slides the quill will still be completely concentric with the ball that you want to drill. Its now just a case of drilling with your carbide drill. But one needs to be a little bit 'sensitive' to ensure that the drill doesn't wander off the centre due to other 2nd order excentricities such as chuck runout etc. To help, what I did was remove the strong return spring in my Wabeco mill's quill. Once this was out the quill will drop slowly with only viscous drag under its own weight. The quill clamp should of course be adjusted to remove as much clearance as possible but too much that is stops the quill from moving.

                                                      6) Let the drill run for about 1 minute with only 'quill weight' on the drill. Once it's made a small indent you can safely begin to apply finger pressure on the quill arm and begin to cut at a much faster rate. (This is enough to get through a 3mm ball in about 45 seconds running at 3000RPM. )

                                                      7) I couldn't tell if there was much heat being developed in the cut but I dont think so. Quite honestly though with such small parts its difficult to tell what's going on anywhere ! What one does find though is debris builds up and obscures the workpiece so I stopped every so often and cleaned things up with a squirt of WD40.

                                                      8) When the drill is through the ball it very kindly pulls the ball out of the socket for you. All you need to do then is slide the ball off the drill and drop it in some acetone to dissolve the remaining hardened glue.

                                                      dscn8230.jpg

                                                      9) If you haven't loaded up the quill too much you will have no chipping on the surface of the ball at break out. You will also have a very high quality hole. For some strange reason the hole is always very slightly tighter on one end. I haven't worked out whether this occurs at the entrance or exit end but its a very small amount and not something that should worry most people.

                                                      dscn8236 enlarged.jpg

                                                      With this technique I feel I could drill holes in bearing balls all day long, completely concentrically and without any surprises or broken drills, and probably on an even smaller scale too. I hope others find this useful.

                                                      Gerry

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