Changewheel ID sought please

This topic has 17 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 2 February 2017 at 16:55 by not done it yet.

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31 January 2017 at 15:02 #281493
Robbo
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@robbo
I would be grateful for advice on the change wheels shown in the pic below, and which machine(s) they might fit. I have had them hanging around for a LONG time, so they need to find a new home.

Specs: 20 DP, 14.5 pa (as far as I can see), 3/8" bore, 9/32" width. They mesh nicely with Myford 7 series changewheels.

They all have stamped numbers which bear no relation to their size, so are presumably Part Nos eg

50 Tooth stamped 100, 42 Tooth stamped 119, 33 Tooth stamped 150, 27 Tooth stamped 185, 22 Tooth stamped 227, 17 Tooth stamped 310.

The combination pair is 50/20 teeth and there is a transverse hole in the central boss, whereas the others have a single hole next to the bore.
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31 January 2017 at 15:02 #18392
Robbo
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@robbo
31 January 2017 at 22:10 #281639
not done it yet
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@notdoneityet
If they look like myford, perhaps posting on the myford forum might get a response?
31 January 2017 at 23:15 #281655
Michael Gilligan
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@michaelgilligan61133
They might be early Round Bed Drummond … here are mine:

…. the holes look about right, but I don't think mine carry those numbers.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 31/01/2017 23:16:35
31 January 2017 at 23:45 #281659
Keith Long
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@keithlong89920
I don't think that they're Drummond gears, the spec. for those is 14dp and have 2 holes – at least all of the ones I have (a LOT) , might be early Myford ML1-4 possibly?
31 January 2017 at 23:58 #281660
Hopper
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@hopper
Seem like unusual numbers of teeth for change gears? Maybe they are off something totally different, ie non-lathe?

Yes Drummond are 14DP and 5/8 hole in the middle. I have some gears I think are ML1-4 but they are 5/8 hole in the middle and 20DP.
1 February 2017 at 00:00 #281661
Michael Gilligan
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@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by Keith Long on 31/01/2017 23:45:06:

I don't think that they're Drummond gears, the spec. for those is 14dp
1 February 2017 at 09:43 #281698
Robbo
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@robbo
Michael

I looked at your pic, but the hole in mine is much nearer the centre bore than on those Drummonds.

I hoped the stamped numbers might be a clue for someone.

I was favouring early Myford, but am having problems with Yahoo Groups just now so can't get into the Myford group as ndiy suggests. (Although I have been a member for years) (Not that that makes any difference to a machine!)

Edited By Robbo on 01/02/2017 09:45:06
1 February 2017 at 09:52 #281699
John Stevenson 1
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@johnstevenson1
I'd go for something non lathe like a lace machine or similar.
1 February 2017 at 10:02 #281700
Brian Wood
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@brianwood45127
Robbo,

As a Myford owner of long standing, I can state with confidence that Myford change wheels are 20 DP and
14.5 degree pressure angle. The bore is 5/8 [0.625 inches] and the wheel width is 3/8 [0.375 inches]

The early ML1-4 wheels were linked when needed by a small 3/16 inch diameter pin a little way out of the bore, the more modern wheels for ML7 and variants have a 1/8 inch wide keyway, with linking on a bush with a formed key on the O/D; the other dimensions remain the same.

I can't identify the ones you show to a machine, but they could be pressed into service on a Myford lathe with the bore opened out and a keyway made accordingly.

I hope that helps the forensics forward a little
Brian
1 February 2017 at 11:02 #281708
not done it yet
Participant
@notdoneityet
Certainly not high powered – with pin couplers, and close to the axis. But almost certainly changewheels for something. Not thought of lacemaking (JS is from the Nottingham area!?), but they are rather heavier than I have seen on wood turning lathes (but not seen many).
1 February 2017 at 12:01 #281723
Gordon W
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@gordonw
I don't know what they are for, but would guess some other than a lathe. There seems to be timing marks on most of them ? Maybe a lace machine as JS said.
1 February 2017 at 14:56 #281761
not done it yet
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@notdoneityet
Well sotted Gordon. They are also all timed from a tooth , not a valley, so not used in combination with each other unless as idlers (no timing needed).
1 February 2017 at 15:32 #281765
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
Are they timing marks? I thought it was marker pen where whoever has written the number of teeth on the gears marked the starting point when they counted them.

Whoever stammped the numbers on them had two sets of punches as the "1" is a different size so may not be a manufacturers stamp.
1 February 2017 at 16:54 #281777
not done it yet
Participant
@notdoneityet
You may be right. This is where more info from robbo is required. He has them, so can confirm one way or the other.
2 February 2017 at 08:06 #281881
Hopper
Participant
@hopper
Interesting that the numbers stamped on the gears get larger as the gears get smaller. Maybe they indicate spindle rpm with that particular gear in place? Or number of turns relative to a main spindle or other datum? Could be off any kind of machinery really.

Lace making machine is probably as good a contender as anything, when you look at pics of old machines
2 February 2017 at 13:50 #281943
Robbo
Participant
@robbo
Jason is right about the 'timing marks', they have been made when counting the teeth, with some sort of indelible ink. (It won't rub off) You can see that each marked tooth has a "1" marked just inboard of it.

I had noticed that the smaller the wheel the larger the stamped number, but it wasn't until I read Hopper's post that a light went on!

Suppose these are a changeable part of a gear train, then the number could indicate the rotational speed of the spindle/axle when that gear is put into the train, so the smaller the gear the faster the speed.

This would indicate part of a machine other than a lathe, so now we are back to JS hypothesis about a lace making machine. Given that Myford were once accommodated in an old lace factory, did they base their changewheels on those in some existing machinery in that factory? Remember these are a perfect mesh with Myford 7 series changewheels, but are smaller in every other dimension.

Do we all agree that we have about beaten this to death? If anybody wants them then drop me a line.
2 February 2017 at 16:55 #281984
not done it yet
Participant
@notdoneityet
Where are you, Robbo? Most machined lacemaking was centred around Nottingham. The area is not renowned for hand lace making. You could enquire at Ruddington framework knitting museum. They might be able to shed some light on it, even if not actually a weaving museum.
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