Jig for milling Half Round Beading from round stock

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Jig for milling Half Round Beading from round stock

Home Forums Workshop Tools and Tooling Jig for milling Half Round Beading from round stock

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  • #17975
    Steve Addy
    Participant
      @steveaddy35670
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      #222856
      Steve Addy
      Participant
        @steveaddy35670

        Having got round to the tin work on my loco, I find that the beading was truly half round on the prototype. The commercial stuff is much flatter in profile. I was thinking of designing a jig to hold several lengths of 5mm round steel so I could mill half of it away. It involves a clamp to hold it down and also to keep the flat facing skywards.

        Has anyone done this? I would be interested how well it worked and what pitfalls are lurking in this endeavour.

        Thanks

        Steve

        #222864
        frank brown
        Participant
          @frankbrown22225

          How about using a slitting saw? In either case I think you need a strip of heavy metal with a series of suitable clamps down its length. So how about a V groove down a strip with pairs of holes down its length. So you use bridges screwed on to clamp the round section. After you have milled a bit flat replace the bridge behind this area with a flat one to continue the clamping action. I think you need at least 3 bridged/pairs of holes and 5 would be better.

          frank

          #222865
          Neil Wyatt
          Moderator
            @neilwyatt

            Try googling 'finger plate', not exactly what you want for long strips, but it might give you some ideas for a jig.

            Neil

            #222867
            JasonB
            Moderator
              @jasonb

              College do true half round as well as the flatter section beading

              #222868
              warwick wilton 1
              Participant
                @warwickwilton1

                Hi Steve

                I would make up a set of rolls and roll. work out the metal required and roll it cold. it is only small so it should roll to that profile easy. I made a roll mill for doing blacksmith work and it rolls cold small sections like that. or you may be able to get the commercial stuff to the profile required using the rolls.

                Warwick.

                #222873
                Steve Addy
                Participant
                  @steveaddy35670

                  Thanks for the fast responses chaps – some interesting ideas. I had seen the CES page but the price made me cringe as I need yards of it and I'm from Yorkshire!

                  It all makes sense, but I'm not sure about using a slitting saw. It would be fine if you could pull it through between closely positioned guides. I would never have thought of rolling it Warwick! I must admit I love that idea as it is something different to play with for a bit. What sort of dimensions are the rolls and how many passes do you need? I could smoke it up with the oxy acetylene before it passed into the rolls. smiley

                  Steve

                  #222879
                  John Haine
                  Participant
                    @johnhaine32865

                    Soft solder to a flat plate lined up touching, mill,away half, melt solder and clean up.

                    #222880
                    julian atkins
                    Participant
                      @julianatkins58923

                      hi steve,

                      i am not quite sure what loco you are building, but in UK fullsize loco work 'half round' beading wasnt half round but as you describe 'flatter'.

                      not sure if the above helps.

                      most half round brass beading for ME isnt half round either and more akin to fullsize in my experience.

                      for steel, you will have to adopt the methods adopted by the current fullsize 'new' builds.

                      cheers,

                      julian

                      Edited By julian atkins on 27/01/2016 22:49:11

                      #222884
                      Steve Addy
                      Participant
                        @steveaddy35670

                        It is a Baldwin WW1 Gas Mechanical. The beading is most certainly half round in the literal sense and actually forms handles on the edge of the cab where two are applied to inside and outside od the sheet metal. This is really why I'm bleating about making it.

                        Steve

                        #222885
                        Steve Addy
                        Participant
                          @steveaddy35670

                          You can see what I'm on about in this shot of the prototype cab.

                          t33-03.jpg

                          Edited By Steve Addy on 27/01/2016 23:38:14

                          #222887
                          Steve Addy
                          Participant
                            @steveaddy35670

                            This is the whole thing for the benefit anyone curious about this thing.

                            t33-02.jpg

                            #222888
                            Steve Addy
                            Participant
                              @steveaddy35670

                              This was the model about 2 years ago with the gearbox newly fitted along with the cranks and rods. The air cleaner assembly has since been replaced.

                              Model Baldwin.jpg

                              #222889
                              Ady1
                              Participant
                                @ady1

                                You can see what I'm on about in this shot of the prototype cab.

                                What? Where? Uh?

                                (I'm the guy who asks questions others are afraid to ask.)

                                I can stick a big fat arrow on the JPEG if I know what the issue is

                                (The only beading I know is wooden beading glued to walls)

                                Edited By Ady1 on 28/01/2016 01:09:20

                                #222891
                                Hopper
                                Participant
                                  @hopper

                                  Or you could soft solder or glue the 5mm round to a length of board, steel or whatever and run it across a belt linisher until you get it down to size. Might be quicker than milling it a few feet at a time if you need large lengths.

                                  #222893
                                  JasonB
                                  Moderator
                                    @jasonb

                                    ADY1 you are the guy that needs to go to specsaverssmile p

                                    in front of you.jpg

                                    I would also favour the soft solder method, I have done that a couple of times when making brass mouldings. Another option would be to bet some 3/16" flat bar and use a woodworking router bead cutter to put a 1/2 hound on teh edge then cut it off with a slitting saw, keep repeating. I often do this when making wooden moundings.

                                    Something else to think about is a moulding box. In this case a block of metal drilled horizontally for your round stock held in the mill vice. Then plung vertically into it with say a 3/8" slotdrill stopping on the ctr line of teh 5mm hole. Set the mill running and push your rod into the hole as its fed in the top half will be milled away.

                                    Edited By JasonB on 28/01/2016 07:36:20

                                    #222906
                                    IanT
                                    Participant
                                      @iant

                                      Steve's model looks to be a larger gauge – so the methods described above probably are more appropriate. Cold 'Rolling' sounds an interesting approach.

                                      But for anyone modelling to a smaller scale (G1 or G3) – then a simple grove in a wooden block (pressed or cut) , with round wire stretched across it, will enable half-round to be draw-filed. No solder or adhesives to clean up afterwards and although it's a manual operation, it doesn't take long to set up and to produce short lengths.

                                      Regards,

                                       

                                      IanT

                                      Edited By IanT on 28/01/2016 10:21:47

                                      #222908
                                      Steve Addy
                                      Participant
                                        @steveaddy35670

                                        Hi Ian, yes it is 7.25" gauge. Frames are about 4 feet long and laser cut from 15mm black plate as the originals were cast. The "conrods" are 2 feet centres. The brakes are made and work but aren't fitted in the photo.

                                        I think I'm going for steel rather than brass to help stiffen the edges. May have to visit the local steel stockholder for a lump of steel to make the jig as I'm sure I don't have anything heavy enough.

                                        Steve

                                        #222909
                                        Michael Cox 1
                                        Participant
                                          @michaelcox1

                                          Hi Steve,

                                          I have never tried to do this but I will suggest a way that might work.

                                          Take length of steel bar and bore a 5 mm clearance hole through the it. Mount the bar on the milling machine so that the hole is horizontal and machine away one end of the bar to expose the hole. Continue milling down until the hole is bisected. Make and mount a steel cover over the bisected section but leave a gap between it and the unmilled section.

                                          With this mounted on the mill set the milling cutter running in the gap and push the 5 mm steel bar through the hole. As it passes the milling cutter it is cut to half the thickness and then enters the semi circular hole on the other side. The semi-circular hole stop the bar from twisting. Out of the end of the semi-circular hole will come the half round material.

                                          As I said, I have never tried to do this so iI do not know if it will work but it might be a way forward.

                                          Mike

                                          #222911
                                          IanT
                                          Participant
                                            @iant

                                            Hi Steve,

                                            I wasn't too sure if it was 7.25" or 5" – but I knew it wasn't G3. smiley

                                            By the way – for the smaller scale modellers I was thinking of – if you need 'curved' half section, then it helps to bend the material before you file it. Use a soft wood end-grain block and 'press' your pre-bent wire into it. You will need to be a bit more careful filing to get things level but on balance it's easier than bending half round after filing.

                                            Regards,

                                             

                                            IanT

                                            Edited By IanT on 28/01/2016 10:35:07

                                            #222912
                                            KWIL
                                            Participant
                                              @kwil

                                              By Jason's Red arrow.

                                              There does not seem to be any change of diameter of the round section as it pases from handrail to capping on the cab side, looks more like the panel could be inserted into a milled slot on the underside of the rod?

                                              #222915
                                              Michael Cox 1
                                              Participant
                                                @michaelcox1

                                                half round jig.jpgHi Steve,

                                                I have made a drawing that may clarify my idea for a jig.

                                                Mike

                                                #222916
                                                DMB
                                                Participant
                                                  @dmb

                                                  Some ideas above seem impressively ingenious but I can’t help thinking that some devices might constantly jam up with swarf especially if milling dry or bottle-dribbles. I think a full flush of cutting fluid would work best. What do the team think?

                                                  #222918
                                                  Ady1
                                                  Participant
                                                    @ady1

                                                    ADY1 you are the guy that needs to go to specsaverssmile p

                                                    Thanks Jason, hadn't a clue what was going on there

                                                    #222926
                                                    JasonB
                                                    Moderator
                                                      @jasonb

                                                      DMB The moulding box method I suggested which is the same as Michael's I use quiet often for small timber mouldings and don't have a problem with sawdust clogging but agree swarf or a burr may jam thinds up and it would be easier done on brass than steel.

                                                      For anyone wanting to make larger flat section then this is a good nethod.

                                                      For myt Fowler which has a very flat "D" section around teh tender I just filed it.

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