Windows 10…more worries so listen…

[Bob StevensonParticipant @bobstevenson13909]

If you currently use Window 10 (or 8.1 & 7 etc) then you need to listen to this tech prog which went out at around 3am but can be listened to on iPlayer…..

Microsoft is trying to take over YOUR pc and Windows 10 is it's latest trojan horse. If you have been suffering the hour long update saga, like many people in the other W10 topic then the real reason is now revealed;……updates to 8.1 contain much of the material for Windows 10 against the time when you 'decide' to download Windows 10. There will be no more versions of windows, only 10 from now on and it will be steadily updated by obligatory updates that you will HAVE TO PAY for each year…….Microsoft sees it's future selling your data whether you like it or not or whether that is legal!… Your third party software tends not to work on W10 because microsoft does NOT really want it to!

….Microsoft needs to know all about you and it's going to!…..unless you get to know all about Microsoft….

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07c3wzg

[Bob StevensonParticipant @bobstevenson13909]

Radio five live tech prog dishes more dirt….

[BizibilderParticipant @bizibilder]

Sorry not quite true….. MS will charge for new installations but not upgrades to the free version of Windows 10. If you don't upgrade for free and want to in the future you will have to pay.

**LINK**

[GeorgineerParticipant @georgineer]

The programme you have linked to is 4 hours long! Can you give us some clue where the W10 article starts, please?

George

[Flying FiferParticipant @flyingfifer]

George,

Where do you get 4 hours long from???

I clicked the same link & it took me to a Microsoft question & answer thingy Read it in less than 2 minutes

Alan

[SandgrounderParticipant @sandgrounder]

I found it about 1hr 10m in from the start.

John

[Steven VineParticipant @stevenvine79904]

I stopped watching the BBC and other 'serious' TV programmes years ago. I cannot be doing with this scaremongering rubbish!

Steve

[Dave Smith the 16thParticipant @davesmiththe16th]

Its free because like most (all)? of the social media sites. They do it for free because they are gathering more data about you than you may realise.

Windows 10 will be spying on you and collecting your data and each new update will try and re-enable anything you disabled. Its a cat and mouse game currently.

Its expected they will extend the free deadline to sweep up any late comers. If your bored try Barnacules Nergasm on youtube, he actually worked for MS before they laid him off.

[Peter HallParticipant @peterhall61789]

This is all nonsense. If you don't like Windows 10, don't use Windows 10.

Pete

Edited By Peter Hall on 27/05/2016 21:02:38

[Harry WilkesParticipant @harrywilkes58467]

Posted by Peter Hall on 27/05/2016 21:02:19:

This is all nonsense. If you don't like Windows 10, don't use Windows 10.

Pete

Edited By Peter Hall on 27/05/2016 21:02:38

Agreed

H

[Bob StevensonParticipant @bobstevenson13909]

………….That's right; if you don't like it don't use it……..

When Windows 10 is the only game in town for PC's we can always change to Apple…or unbuntu…or…

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by Bob Stevenson on 27/05/2016 17:51:19:

There will be no more versions of windows, only 10 from now on and it will be steadily updated by obligatory updates that you will HAVE TO PAY for each year

 

 

Sounds like the subscription model that a number of software vendors are moving to. Instead of coming up with new versions (and bug fixes) periodically for which you pay an upgrade charge, they charge you an annual subscription and updates are included. If you don't renew the subscription, the software stops working.

This effectively forces the user to pay for updates which currently they may or may not bother with (look how many are still on XP) and maintains a revenue stream for the vendor. Of course with this model, there's little actual pressure on the vendor to come up with new bells and whistles all the time as an excuse for releasing a new version (that may be a good thing).

It's just the next stage in the "you don't own the software, you licence it" scheme of things which so shocked the (small at the time) microcomputing community, when Gates announced it for Microsoft Basic in the 70's. I believe Adobe is already going down this road with Photoshop.

Edited By Bandersnatch on 27/05/2016 22:48:10

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by Bob Stevenson on 27/05/2016 17:51:19:

..updates to 8.1 contain much of the material for Windows 10 against the time when you 'decide' to download Windows 10.

This has been discussed here before. It's another reason for turning off automatic updates and checking what each update does before accepting it. Tedious but necessary.

It's no accident that MS's classification of updates has changed recently from "Critical or Optional" to "Important or Optional". "Critical" used to be just that – security and bug fixes. "Important" is … well whatever MS considers it important for you to have – MS's interests given priority of course.

[IanTParticipant @iant]

I've just acquired a new laptop running Win 10 and it seems to run everything I need it to very well, including Office 2007 and TurboCAd 15. I did spend 20 minutes or so running through various options and disabling some 'features'. I think it is just a fact of life that large companies are leveraging their access to your internet habits/transactions. I don't use Twitter or Facebook but I do use Google and other online services

Do you think any of these are any better? Apple was mentioned. Not only very expensive but also very proprietary (as my sons have discovered to their cost). So if you want complete privacy then perhaps Linux will give it to you but I doubt it. Do you accept cookies when you surf? I doubt you have much choice. Online privacy is an oxymoron in my view. So I'll just get on and enjoy my new laptop and just try to be alert for all the email scams and other phishing rubbish that is the real problem for my personal security and which I believe my new laptop will help me control.

Regards,

IanT

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

I hear that the Royal Navy runs it's subs on a version of XP, and until a few months ago al the Banks in NZ were on XP. Ian S C

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Posted by Bandersnatch on 27/05/2016 22:45:53:

Sounds like the subscription model that a number of software vendors are moving to. Instead of coming up with new versions (and bug fixes) periodically for which you pay an upgrade charge, they charge you an annual subscription and updates are included. If you don't renew the subscription, the software stops working.

This effectively forces the user to pay for updates which currently they may or may not bother with (look how many are still on XP) and maintains a revenue stream for the vendor. Of course with this model, there's little actual pressure on the vendor to come up with new bells and whistles all the time as an excuse for releasing a new version (that may be a good thing).

It's just the next stage in the "you don't own the software, you licence it" scheme of things which so shocked the (small at the time) microcomputing community, when Gates announced it for Microsoft Basic in the 70's. I believe Adobe is already going down this road with Photoshop.

Edited By Bandersnatch on 27/05/2016 22:48:10

They are all at it – so updates come from a "store" (=cost), programs are "apps" (which we pay for), updates are only available if you pay a subscription, even if they are to fix bad programming etc. But that's the way it is. Some companies like Solidworks want their cake and eat it – pay through the nose for the initial purchase AND pay through the nose for support to fix their bugs – they get a real sh***y on if you refuse the "support agreement". Familiarity breeds contempt! Which gives other companies an opening eg Fusion 360 and Onshape that ONLY charge subscription.

I use Office 365 Pro which is subscription only, no initial cost, rather than buy a one-off licence. It means I get the latest version of all the Office programs (sorry, "apps&quot on several machines, as well as 1TB of cloud storage. I can live with it.

School and university students get the full Office 365 suite for free until they start working. This helps to get them hooked but to be honest, not many companies in the technology / engineering arena can sensibly use anything other than Windows anyway. So just live with it!

W10 is a lot better than W8 and not too daft compared to W7. I'm fine with it on several machines although the W7 machines can stay as they are until they demise.

[Peter HallParticipant @peterhall61789]

Posted by IanT on 28/05/2016 09:47:50 So I'll just get on and enjoy my new laptop…

Give that man a gold star!

Pete

Edited By Peter Hall on 28/05/2016 13:11:21

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

There are several ongoing attempts by software companies aimed at getting a steadier income. This just sounds like another one with a bit of a twist as is usually the case with MS. They have had a great one for ages and ages. Updates on older OS's might better be called kludges. Eventually the machine takes ages to boot up plus other problems and then people often upgrade or buy a new machine which of course will have a far more recent OS on it. Once the new OS is on it things are better and then the same thing happens again over time. This has caused some to switch to Mac's but only time will tell if they are any better. I know people who use them that are refusing updates all ready.

Some years ago MS limited how many times a machine would accept hardware changes. It flatly refused after 3 changes if I remember correctly. I wonder how many people knew that a phone call to MS would fix the problem?

Going on PhotoShop renting it out seems to be a good idea from an income point of view. An expensive package suddenly costs peanuts a month and gains a lot more users and a steady income for Adobe.

Cloud usage and web based applications where little of the software is actually kept locally on the machine was initially of interest because the local machine could be a lot simpler – no storage other than ram and everything on a cloud some where. However is does have another advantage as well – much more difficult for the hackers to get at it. At one point it looked like all software was heading in this direction. Maybe there are feasibility issues with some – currently.

Support has always been a source of income in some areas. Even in the case of Linux actually. Even that makes money for some companies that produce the distro's.

Information, cookies, persistent local storage etc is also a source of income. While a hit might only gain a penny for some one what if they have several million hits a day. Of late sites ask people to accept the use of cookies. Largely down to noises from the EU, if they did anything about it there are a very large number of people in it. Oh dear it could upset the money go round.

Having to go though hoops to install some software on more recent window's OS's is also another money go round last time i looked at it. Having to make it install just like "approved" applications do was expensive. Some years ago now so no idea what has happened since. It made things rather difficult for individuals who wanted to write and sell applications so great for the big boys.

There's no point bleating about any of this. It's more a case of having to accept it. If companies don't make money they cease to exist and their basic objective is to make more and more of it even if the increase is purely inflation. Just like whole countries it makes things look better even though it's Scotch mist.

John

–

Edited By Ajohnw on 29/05/2016 10:47:19

[Swarf MakerParticipant @swarfmaker85383]

Has anybody any experience of the Pro version of Win10 and does it offer any more user control over what MS can and can't do to your system?

[Mark P.Participant @markp]

I’m sticking to W7.
Mark P.

[Dave Smith the 16thParticipant @davesmiththe16th]

Posted by Peter Hall on 27/05/2016 21:02:19:

This is all nonsense. If you don't like Windows 10, don't use Windows 10.

Pete

Edited By Peter Hall on 27/05/2016 21:02:38

If only it was that easy. What about the latest forced update that will install without asking?

I have had to roll back several computers for older people that didnt like windows 10 after auto updates installed it. Admittedly they had the choice back then and made a mistake. But the latest update will do it even if your not using the machine.

Imagine leaving your computer on whilst you popped to the shop them came back to find its installing windows 10. Because you didnt cancel the dialog box.

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

Maybe I'm not computer savvy, but I don't see any problem. Recently bought a new computer and had a free update to w1o when it became available. I did accept w10 and was downloaded. I did not like it at first but am now used to it. New bits and upgrades come fairly often but cause any problems. I'm plugged in to mains so no battery problems, use satelite and have not gone over the monthly allowance. I am not worried about my details being let loose on the world, just ignore anything I don't recognise. My wife has her works stuff on it, this is heavily protected security-wise, again no problems. Naive maybe, but so far no problems.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Hi Gordon,

My main problem with what Microsoft has done with Windows 10 is that the changes I object to are more or less invisible. An analogy might be the bacteria in that good locking tasty sandwich that might be about to give me the trots!

My life experience is that naivety is high risk, best avoided. One simple way to clarify how you really feel about your computer privacy is to decide how much personal detail you would be content to share with the world by publishing it today on this forum. Now.

You only truly don't have a privacy problem if you are prepared to give us, for example, all the following and more:

• Your full name, age, postal address, telephone number and email addresses
• Your bank sort-codes and account numbers
• Your credit card numbers
• Details of Building Society Accounts and other investments
• The name of your Doctor's surgery and hospital appointments
• A full list any embarrassing medical conditions
• Your political affiliations and religious beliefs
• You and your wife's employment status
• Photographs of your family
• A full list of everything you buy or subscribe to or look at on the Internet
• A full list of all your emails, who they were sent to or came from , and when

I suggest that anyone nervous about that kind of information being harvested whilst they are using their computer should be proactive with their security arrangements. In normal use it takes time and effort to collect personal data: there's no need for us to make it easy.

I use Windows 10 for a number of reasons and rather like it. But it's a particularly strong case of buyer beware. This site seems to cover fixing the Windows 10 privacy issues quite well. None of it is difficult to do.

Lets be careful out there,

Dave

[VicParticipant @vic]

Anyone who agrees to this is more than a little naive in my opinion. If you choose to use Windows though you have no choice.

“We will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary to protect our customers or enforce the terms governing the use of the services,”

Microsoft said in its recently update new terms of services agreement.

**LINK**

[Steven VineParticipant @stevenvine79904]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 30/05/2016 13:31:48:You only truly don't have a privacy problem if you are prepared to give us, for example, all the following and more:

It is not only Microsoft that has access to your data. Almost any program you allow to run on your computer can harvest information, dial home, and present it to the people that made the software. You have no idea what information 3rd party software is collecting from your machine. Your data is there to be 'read'. Have you noticed that most programs will dial home and take you to their webpage, when you are uninstalling them. Yes, be safe out there!!

Steve

[Author]

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