The diesel controversy

[richardandtracyParticipant @richardandtracy]

I have a stupid thing going on with my insurer at the moment.

I am converting my Vito taxi (includes 6 removable seats and windows) to a motorhome. The level of conversion I want to do would qualify in the US as a 'Day-van', but not as a full motorhome conversion, because I can use the vehicle for other things. So, I discuss the mods I want to do with my current van's insurer's and they say 'Not enough of a conversion to qualify as a motorhome, so we won't touch it as we're motorhome insurers.'. Then we go to a van insurer & get the response 'Are you going to modify the vehicle in any way? If yes, go away.'. I ask for the level of modification that counts as modifying the vehicle. The response: one M4 screw hole in the floor pan is enough to invalidate the insurance.

I've done stress analysis on aeroplanes & have had CAA accreditation and won't do anything stupid. Apparently technical competence & facts are entirely irrelevant. Probably because the person assessing the work is technically incompetent.

So, to progress, I ask if I can attach any mods I make to the cargo attachment points in the van. The reply 'That would then be cargo in the van and you can do what you like. It won't be insured, but it won't invalidate your insurance, either.'. Ahh. A way forward. Only the insurer said 'But we won't insure you.' 'Why not?!?' says I. The insurer's reply: 'Because you are obviously wanting to do something out of the ordinary and we don't insure risks like that." . They've told me it's OK, and then it's not in 3 minutes.

Makes you sick.

Rant over

Richard.

 

 

Edited By richardandtracy on 16/05/2017 16:43:00

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

OK Dave,

Let's just assume petrol is octane (clearly not, but an average hydrocarbon).

From that data, each car produced 5.600 tonnes of CO2 (ignoring the minor constituents)

If pure octane C8 H18 (RMMof 114), that equates to 5.6/114*18 tonnes of hydogen

= 0.88 tonnes .

That hydrogen combines with oxygen to form water (H2O has an RMM of 18), so 0.88/2*18 = 7.9 tonnes. And you or m 100 is suggesting that water from 35kg of hydrocarbons (equivalent to 50kg of water if it were octane – but it won't be) is a "considerable" increase? That amounts to a 0.63% increase. Hardly significant. I just asked my wife what she thought would be a "considerable increase" and she replied "more than 20%".

Of course those results are hypothetical and I would guess the 50kg water equivalent for 35kg of HC is 'vastly' overestimated! Catalytic converters were around long before year 2000, so real results would be very different – but no considerable increase in water emissions whichever way you want to look at it. Still hoping m 100 will explain his statement.

[Nick HulmeParticipant @nickhulme30114]

Planet over heating – Diesel addresses that.

Planet over populated………………

😀

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Posted by Nick Hulme on 21/05/2017 12:46:32:

Planet over heating – Diesel addresses that.

Planet over populated………………

😀

Diesels been addressing that too hasn't it Nick?

[roy entwistleParticipant @royentwistle24699]

Planet over populated

Don't worry, nature will sort that out ie wars, famine, disease, floods etc

[clogsParticipant @clogs]

Richard + Tracy,

what about insurance as special ……

I run a five seater VW,T4, actually first reg in Holland…..you should have been there trying to insure it….."they" the morons said as the vehicle was not a model supplied to the country I want to insure it in so they couldn't insure it………. Reason being they could not offer a satisfactory repair because the parts are unavailable from the general dealer…..then I explained about other imported models of cars say from Japan…….think I just pxxxed em off and they gave me it…..bloody pen pushers……

and if it has a bump over a grand it's a write off anyway !!!!!!!!!!!

how about strapping ur furniture down with tie straps to the original fittings then ur legal…..

sorry it doesn't help much but I know how you feel……prats…Clogs

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

What makes a 'motorhome' is set out here:

http://www.ukmotorhomes.net/motorhome-faqs/16-motorhome-mots

My recollection is that basically this means there must be beds and table (which may fold away or be removable for stowage but are part of the vehicle – i.e. not just a folding picnic table)

Neil

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

You must also inform the DVLA for change of use from van to camper.

Martin P

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by martin perman on 21/05/2017 19:30:16:

You must also inform the DVLA for change of use from van to camper.

Martin P

Once done you can drive at 70mph on the motorway, instead of 60.

Logical, eh?

Neil

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

Once done you can drive at 70mph on the motorway, instead of 60.

Vans can drive at 70 mph on motorways anyway, so no change there ?

Nigel B

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Dual carriageways vans are restricted to 60 and 50 on single carriageways, they can then upgrade to 70 and 60

Edited By martin perman on 23/05/2017 07:41:09

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

The logic behind the the van speed restriction is load carrying capacity, I use a Renault Trafic which is capable of carrying one ton and needs more braking distance where as a camper doesn’t have that carrying capacity so doesn’t need the restrictions

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Nigel B on 23/05/2017 07:26:38:

Once done you can drive at 70mph on the motorway, instead of 60.

Vans can drive at 70 mph on motorways anyway, so no change there ?

Nigel B

They can and do, but they aren't supposed to.

Neil

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

They can and do, but they aren't supposed to.

**LINK**

HMG say otherwise – look at the column "Goods vehicles (not more than 7.5 tonnes maximum laden weight)" which shows motorway speed limt as 70 mph. This is the same as "Cars, motorcycles, car-derived vans and dual-purpose vehicles", "Motorhomes or motor caravans (not more than 3.05 tonnes maximum unladen weight)" , "Motorhomes or motor caravans (more than 3.05 tonnes maximum unladen weight)" and "Buses, coaches and minibuses (not more than 12 metres overall length)" – all are 70 mph on motorways.

Dual carriage ways & single carriage ways are another matter, but for motorhomes "not more than 3.05 tonnes maximum unladen weight" sets the limits, not maximum permitted weight.

Nigel B

[richardandtracyParticipant @richardandtracy]

Posted by martin perman on 21/05/2017 19:30:16:

You must also inform the DVLA for change of use from van to camper.

Martin P

I didn't need to on my Sprinter. The insurer did that automatically for me without my knowledge as a result of the 'home conversion insurance' we took out on it. I was keeping the van as a 'van' because we use it for everything including moving plasterboard, mopeds, as a bus for kids & friends etc. as well as a low spec day van/motorhome. It had an unexpected beneficial side effect, though, recent changes in MOT rules have introduced a 3 tonne GVW limit for many MOT stations. However as our 3.5 tonne GVW Sprinter is a 'motorhome', it's exempt from the way the rules were worded & we can continue using our old MOT station even though their GVW limit is now 3 tonnes not the 3.5 tonnes the approval used to give. Every year for the last 4 years the Department of Transport has sent them a letter saying this loophole will be closed soon, but they haven't done so yet.

Unfortunately that van, now nearly 19 years old, is rather badly affected by rust & will be sold by Saturday lunchtime (I hope… if anyone bids for her…). We'll miss her, had her 16 years and spent many holidays in her from the time the kids were just old enough to go camping and could be trusted in a tent overnight (well, you don't want the kids in the van with you, do you?).

Regards,

Richard.

[vintagengineerParticipant @vintagengineer]

My Fiat Camper van has a GVW of 4000 kg and is allowed to do 70 on a dual carriage way.

Posted by martin perman on 23/05/2017 07:54:42:
The logic behind the the van speed restriction is load carrying capacity, I use a Renault Trafic which is capable of carrying one ton and needs more braking distance where as a camper doesn't have that carrying capacity so doesn't need the restrictions

[LimpetParticipant @limpet]

Posted by vintagengineer on 01/07/2017 21:39:23:

My Fiat Camper van has a GVW of 4000 kg and is allowed to do 70 on a dual carriage way.

Posted by martin perman on 23/05/2017 07:54:42:
The logic behind the the van speed restriction is load carrying capacity, I use a Renault Trafic which is capable of carrying one ton and needs more braking distance where as a camper doesn't have that carrying capacity so doesn't need the restrictions

 

The main reason they don't have the carrying capacity is that they are soooooooo heavy anyway. Brother had an Autocruise tracker on a Fiat Doublo and was overloaded if it had 3 passengers unladen weight was 150 kg below max

Edited By Limpet on 01/07/2017 22:06:15

Edited By Limpet on 01/07/2017 22:06:54

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

My Fiat Camper van has a GVW of 4000 kg and is allowed to do 70 on a dual carriage way

Somehow I doubt if that is correct. Only small vans are allowed to do up to 70mph on dual carriage ways. Large vans are limited to 60mph. It is only on motorways that large vans can travel at up to 70mph. I won't argue about it but advise you to check it out before you get a ticket!

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits

[vintagengineerParticipant @vintagengineer]

Well that's a minefield! How do you define unladen weight on a motorhome? Mine carries over 1000kg of supplies, let alone the passengers!

Posted by martin perman on 02/07/2017 06:25:19:

https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-weights-explained

[VicParticipant @vic]

I've seen vans tailgating cars in the outside lane on motorways at 90+ mph, why do they even make vans that can do 100mph? Shouldn't all vans have speed limiters to prevent them going over 70.

[Eric CoxParticipant @ericcox50497]

Isn't there a question of VAT in that a commercial van is VAT exempt and it you convert it, ie fit windows you have to inform HM revenue and customs. If so it's based on the value of the vehicle to determine the amount to be paid. You should present it for valuation after the window apertures have been cut out but before the windows are fitted.

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Vans are not exempt anymore but you can claim VAT on any vehicle if its used only for your business, https://www.gov.uk/reclaim-vat/cars

Martin P

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Under EU rules a camper-van under 3.5 metric tons rated capacity is the same class vehicle as a normal car and the same laws apply. I doubt that it will be high on Mrs. May's list to change those rules after Brexit!

Some town councils in France have even been taken to court for trying to ban parking for camper-vans from parking where cars are allowed to park. The only exception allowed is a height restriction where there is a danger from low bridges, overhanging branches etc.

Russell.

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