The diesel controversy

[steamdaveParticipant @steamdave]

What about the compressed air powered car from Tata, India?

Dave
The Emerald Isle

[Antony PowellParticipant @antonypowell28169]

The problem was the crew to operate the foot pump, it costs too much to pay their wages under European law

[Antony PowellParticipant @antonypowell28169]

What we really need is teleporting like on the tomorrow people or startrek

Edited By Antony Powell on 04/05/2017 17:22:58

[Antony PowellParticipant @antonypowell28169]

[Antony PowellParticipant @antonypowell28169]

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

Scrap steel wheeled trains,build nuclear power stations and enjoy ten times more traffic for same land use with much less noise and no emmisions.

 

**LINK**

 

 

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 04/05/2017 18:04:34

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

|Posted by Antony Powell on 04/05/2017 13:10:02:

|even a cheap car these days is around £20,000 and road tax £300 pa (average)

 

 

 

My 2015 Dacia Sandero 1.5DCI cost just over £9,000 for the top spec model with 7 year warrantee and costs nothing in road tax. Fuel consumption as noted previously. Of course, it's only Euro5, but would have been Euro6 if I'd bought it 6 months later.

Edited By Mark Rand on 04/05/2017 21:48:44

Edited By Mark Rand on 04/05/2017 21:49:14

[Antony PowellParticipant @antonypowell28169]

You can't call that a car !!!

[Michael BriggsParticipant @michaelbriggs82422]

Snob

[Brian OldfordParticipant @brianoldford70365]

Posted by Antony Powell on 05/05/2017 08:01:32:

You can't call that a car !!!

Would you be happier if it carried the Renault logo?

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

In Victorian times there was much concern about horse traffic in the cities. Newspapers were publishing stories about the streets of London being 3ft deep in horse dung and panic about where to put it all. Calls for alternative forms of transport. The petrol engine was invented and all problems were solved.

[Jon GibbsParticipant @jongibbs59756]

It's not a complete solution for cars but I thought it was a pretty neat idea for lorries and busses…

**LINK**

Jon

[ChrisHParticipant @chrish]

My daughter has the Dacia Stepway – a version of the Sandero – with a 3 cylinder 0.9 turbo petrol engine and it's absolutely brilliant, excellent spec for such am inexpensive car, most of the parts are Renault, so please don't rubbish Dacia because of the perhaps the name, I don't know, Andrew.

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by Brian Oldford on 05/05/2017 08:55:49:

Posted by Antony Powell on 05/05/2017 08:01:32:

You can't call that a car !!!

Would you be happier if it carried the Renault logo?

You mean like this! Image

Russell

[Antony PowellParticipant @antonypowell28169]

"Would you be happier if it carried the Renault logo?"

Yes I make a lot of money out of Renault's cock ups

 

I Have a proper motor, A 4.2 litre Supercharged V8 Range Rover Sport

who cares about the environment !!!!!!

19MPG on a good day if i don't put my foot down !!!

486 bhp And a lovely Roar from the sport's exhausts…….

 

 

Edited By Antony Powell on 05/05/2017 16:26:33

Edited By Antony Powell on 05/05/2017 16:26:51

Edited By Antony Powell on 05/05/2017 16:29:56

Edited By Antony Powell on 05/05/2017 16:32:21

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Antony Powell on 05/05/2017 16:18:55:

…

I Have a proper motor, A 4.2 litre Supercharged V8 Range Rover Sport

…

Very brave to admit it. You do realise that most people believe that drivers of flash cars have a tiny willy…

Dave

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

With the government losing court cases hand over fist on this matter they're being forced to get a move on or the lawyers will tear them to pieces

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-39737981

Edited By Ady1 on 05/05/2017 16:56:57

[FatgadgiParticipant @fatgadgi]

TINY WILLY ??????

Who ?

Never. No, not me … I mean, well, no ……

OK, I admit. it's true.

Mine's a big fat diesel guzzling Jag

Cheers Willy

[Antony PowellParticipant @antonypowell28169]

It's not what you've got it's what you do with it that counts………

I'll post a picture, Don't get upset !!

 

Actually Mines a Billy…

 

Edited By Antony Powell on 05/05/2017 17:21:24

[richardandtracyParticipant @richardandtracy]

It always amuses me to see all the stuff about fuel consumption. In 1994/5 I was getting 44.7 mpg over 20000 miles a year from my then clapped out vehicle which had 120000 miles on the clock. These days 44.7 actual still seems pretty good. The fuel consumption would currently put it in a low tax class for efficient vehicles. The vehicle? A Citroen 2CV.

I suppose I must say, it's in a zero tax class now, being over 25 years old, but that's beside the point.

I must admit the Dacia Sandero is an interesting car, shame they put 3 seats in the back & not face reality that there is only room for 2. That way they ensure the 2 who will fit are always uncomfortable by trying to fit into seats too small for small children.

Regards

Richard.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Nothing wrong with the size of the car, people are getting too big.

Ian S C

[Antony PowellParticipant @antonypowell28169]

People don't look at the size of the seats they look at the number !!

You never see a family of five buying a car – at best you get two adults

Edited By Antony Powell on 06/05/2017 13:45:22

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

The pollution situation is now causing the Gobment to come up with the lowering of Mway speeds in areas of high pollution from 70 to 60 mph.

Likewise some Councils are making pollution free inner zones.

Then, they are going to offer older diesel 0wners scrappage payments for cars that pollute, source, Daily Mail,so it must be true!

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

You think that modern diesels are dirty?

back in the fifties when i was apprenticed to the Oil Engine Division, acceptable exhaust was "just visible". In the 60s when smoke meters such as the Hartridge or Bosch became available this was 3 Bosch, or 30 Hartridge units. No one cared about hydrocarbon emissions. The engine most revered for fuel economy in UK had an large appetite for oil, when I ran mixed fleet of buses and coaches.

One manufacturer installed rings that allowed the engine to use oil when it was first new (Delayed Action Scraper Rings). Even in the 80s the maximum limit on oil consumption was 0.2% of fuel used under test bed conditions.

Then no one worried about emissions (When we were developing F I E for an American tractor manufacturer, and said that the smoke levels were a bit high, the reply was to the effect " If it smokes, they can see where the tractor is from the homestead" Another American saying of the time was "If she ain't smoking, she ain't pulling"

This was the land where, when emissions first came in, one of the largest diesel engine manufacturers boasted of having produced a "cycle beater", because the ECU could detect the speed/load conditions matching the test cycle conditions, and would adjust settings to comply at that point.

The same country that complained about VW doing the same thing! (Not that I condone it)

It takes, even with computer simulations, nearly five years to develop an engine to a given level of power output, efficiency and emissions. And the regulations change every three years, so don't all rush to be development engineer!

The after treatment costs as much if not more than the engine, and occupies about as much space, not to mention the parts complication and software to control it.

NOx results from Nitrogen and oxygen being present at high temperatures. Because of the higher compression ration, the diesel engine will produce higher in cylinder temperatures than a petrol engine,but burn fuel more efficiently. Anyone know of a 2 litre petrol engine that can deliver 100 mpg?

A friend has a modern diesel; by setting the speed limiter to 60 mph he says that it will do 70 mpg. A turbocharged 2 litre (probably charge cooled) that well beats the economy of my 1298cc 12 year old naturally aspirated petrol, even if i stay below 60 mph, and use engine braking to save fuel.

Combustion of any hydrocarbon fuel will produce carbon, (Complete combustion, without NOx, only takes place in Utopia). Petrol engine exhausts get a coating of soot; in the old days the white coating was lead overlaid on the soot. (Anyone recall the smogs of the 50s and early 60s?)

Hence, all engines produce particulates. The dangerous ones are the 10 – 20 micron size. Above 20 micron, your nose should trap them, below 10 micron they are carried in and out as you breathe.

If you want to see a dirty exhaust, look at a cross channel ferry whilst it is in dock; the on board gen sets appear to be well round the loop, for maximum power.

And as for the bunker fuel that goes into the main propulsion engines, that used to be horrendous stuff, high sulphur content and had to be heated before it would flow, let alone burn.

Lastly, don't expect either politicians or newspaper journalists to know anything much about engineering. Both thrive on knee jerk reactions, and headlines! Remember, Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story, forget the lobbying of vested interests.

Howard

[Antony PowellParticipant @antonypowell28169]

"The pollution situation is now causing the Gobment to come up with the lowering of Mway speeds in areas of high pollution from 70 to 60 mph"

Have you driven around Birmingham or on the M62 lately you be lucky to get 40mph and then its constant stop start due to these managed motorways with imaginary "congestion ahead" – Yes caused by your bloody signs and badly managed motorway

I always thought that stop start created more pollution !!

Tony

Sat in a traffic jam on the M62………ARRRRRRRGH……..On a Sunday……….

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