The death of Diesel?

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

It is much MUCH worse than you think, see this recent test http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/how_toxic_is_your_car_exhaust .Apparently, the new vehicles are much more polluting in real world driving than they were 5 or more years ago, due to changes in the way they are tested! Perhaps we should run diesels on vegetable oil, as Mr diesel originally intended.

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

Pollution is all around us, even those of us who live in rural areas away from the diesel fumes of urban areas still encounter pollution, I live in East Sussex and we are served by electric railways, look at any house or building that is near the railway, the window frames are all tinged dirty brown with the rust from steel particles shed from the action of train wheels on the rails and their use of disc brakes. There is no escaping pollution, it is all around us, is inhaling sulphur particles more dangerous than microscopic steel particles?

Dave

[ChrisHParticipant @chrish]

Fresh air – you can't beat it! One of the reasons I love spending time in central Brittany is that there is no big build up of population around and no big industries belching out smoke, there is not much to pollute the atmosphere between us and the Atlantic coast, the prevailing wind is SouthWest so we have plenty of really fresh air there straight off the Atlantic and it really does make a difference – you even sleep better for it.

Having said that France seems even more into diesel vehicles than us and the fuel price there reflects that, plus we have no gas in our village, oil would be a problem too and our small house is heated entirely with logs burnt in a glass-fronted wood burning stove, one fire heats the whole house, it's carbon neutral, there is little smoke, none in the house of course, very homily. One of our major problems in the UK is chronic overcrowding, never mind industry, the great number of vehicles and population density gives us the pollution on it's own.

Chris

[ChrisHParticipant @chrish]

You are right Mike – we have to be a realist to survive but so many are not realists but just fantasise their world, then wonder why it's not as they thought.

Chris

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

Brittany may be relatively pollution free but we in East Sussex are downwind when the prevailing wind is a southwesterly so where is our pollution coming from?

Dave

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

The isle of Wight .

[ChrisHParticipant @chrish]

Dave – possibly Portsmouth/Southampton or Le Harve for starters? There are oil refineries at both Southampton and Le Harve. Plus all the traffic between the Atlantic and East Sussex on down both sides of the Channel?

Chris

 

Edited By ChrisH on 25/10/2017 22:48:24

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

The only pollution that I really worry about is from the cluster of French Nuclear Power Stations along the North French coast, you can't smell it or see it and it's the most dangerous.

Dave

[MikeParticipant @mike89748]

I was in South-western France a few weeks ago, in a house in a village overlooking the Gironde, and we could see a nuclear power station from the balcony. Our host told us there was a plan for everyone in the locality to be issued with iodine tablets in the event of a leak. Makes you think…

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

One of our major problems in the UK is chronic overcrowding (ChrisH)

Question. What is the maximum rated population figure for the UK? I can't seem to find it on the makers plate.?

yours in anticipation Martin

[MikeParticipant @mike89748]

Agreed, Martin. It seems that the population density of England is over 1,000 per square mile. Where I live in Scotland the population density per square mile is around 100. OK, I'm lucky in that I'm semi-retired and, with modern communications I could do my job from anywhere in the world I chose. But then, I'm sure lots of jobs could be done from home if employers allowed it. Sorry, I've got a bit off the subject here, but at least we have relatively clean air to breathe.

[J HancockParticipant @jhancock95746]

When you buy your next new diesel car, ask the dealer where the 'diesel additive' tank is, how much it holds, how much per litre it costs to refill and how often will it need to be refilled.

Then ask him where those details are explained in the handbook.

Don't be surprised, if , when you have problems with the DPF you are advised never to run the engine at less than 2000rev/min for any length of time.

And that is not in the handbook either.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

When you buy your next new diesel car, ask the dealer where the 'diesel additive' tank is, how much it holds, how much per litre it costs to refill and how often will it need to be refilled.

I don't buy new cars (depreciation is far more than the running costs) but the additive tank is very much adjacent to the fuel tank, it holds only three litres (used to about 4.5l in older models) and needs refilling about every 80k miles. Not in the user manual as it requires resetting of the EMS, so a service item. And it won't last anywhere near as long if the fuel tank is continually topped up with small amounts.of fuel (not many know that, either!).

What annoyed me was the message of 'engine management fault' so take for diagnosis ASAP, without any specific warning. Another 400 miles would have affected nothing. That, and the smaller tank (refilled more often), smacks of dealership profits being raised by the car manufacturer. The previous model had a simple low level indication, so presumably no need for any computer intervention for resetting the EMS.

Oh, and the additive can be bought for about £16/litre.

[ChrisHParticipant @chrish]

I don't know what the UK population is and I suspect the official figure is a fair bit less than the actual. I believe it is roughly the same as France but France is very much bigger in area.

When I say the UK is overcrowded, yes there are great stretches of countryside that is still relatively empty but the urban areas are very crowded, and the SouthEast especially so. Just travel on any motorway or major road and look at the volume of traffic all day long. How many times have you driven into a town and just crawled along? Travel speeds on the roads in London are said to be slower now than back in the days when everything went by horse. All that traffic is constantly polluting the atmosphere. You can't just wake up and smell the coffee, the coffee smell is masked by traffic fumes!! And the more the population grows, the more the countryside is taken for houses for folk to live in and the more traffic there is on the roads.

Chris

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

I spent 3 years in London 40+ years ago, it was bad then, by all accounts it's worse now. Why does anyone want to live or work there? Yes the pay is more, but quality of life must be awful with pollution, commuting, overcrowding etc etc

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

When attending the Ally Pally show I always like to take in the view over London but it seems to get worse every year, the haze can make it hard to see very much detail in what should be a magnificent view.

Mike

[VicParticipant @vic]

Mercedes owners have been charged up to $32 a gallon for adblue in the US:

**LINK**

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

Mike can't imagine our authorities being as prepared and proactive enough to dispense iodine tablets in the event of a nuclear incident, we seem to fail at organising basic services, our infrastructure seems to be crumbling away due to neglect.

Dave

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

I guess that it's a good job that we aren't dependent on your imagination then…

[ChrisHParticipant @chrish]

Aren't we……?

[J HancockParticipant @jhancock95746]

I can ,at least, assure you that the Emergency Plan for Hinkley Point ( in 1975) did include the distribution of

Iodine tablets to the local populace in the event of an 'incident'.

Of course, this would all be in french today.

However, eating plenty of seaweed , daily, in your diet will achieve the same result.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Mercedes owners have been charged up to $32 a gallon for adblue in the US:

They can afford it? Says $13 for 2 1/2 gallons is a better price , so a simple dealer rip off.

It may be of interest that farmers spread umpteen tonnes of urea on their fields as fertiliser.

On top of that the link tells of urea dissolved in mineralised water.  What poppycock!  Adding all sorts of solids to the exhaust gases!

 

 

Edited By not done it yet on 26/10/2017 17:09:32

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Before we all get too self righteous, remember that one way of reducing CO2 and methane in the atmosphere is to stop ALL mammals (ourselves included) from breathing. Probably not acceptable!

Man has been polluting the atmosphere since Adam drew his first breath.

It's just that now, there are too many of us, using too many things that are, ultimately, fuelled by hydrocarbons.

Howard

PS For anyone who is anti diesel; think on life without it after an immediate ban. That would solve the pollution problem, and that of over population very quickly! MANY would starve, here for lack of food, and the overseas providers.

[Martin DowingParticipant @martindowing58466]

For as long as technological civilization exists, there will be pollution.

One who wants to get rid of pollution should vote for nuclear war, for some horribly lethal pandemic or for complete economic ruin of global system.

Technological advances will produce *more* pollution, not less. Such advances are always translated into more population growth and more demand. EV for example must be powered by electricity produced somewhere, usually from FF. In any case 1/3 of fossil fuel consumed by any ICE motor vehicle is burned in process of *production* of said vehicle, not in process of driving.

If you want to be as green as possible, you should struggle to maintain your *old car*, diesel, petrol, doesn't matter. Just run it. Act of buying new is an underwritting of burning of something like 3 – 6 tons of oil, even if you buy EV.

Martin

[Bill MullParticipant @billmull]

An old one but still fairly relevant,
https://youtu.be/pzFiRsJQvqc

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