Rapid Prototyping

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

OK, when Maplin start selling RP machines over the counter for the price of a small lathe, I have to accept that rapid prototyping WILL be part of the future of model engineering.

I have visions of hundreds of them languishing unused after printing one rough-looking iphone case. But add one teenager with real imagination, or one determined model engineer…

Now, when will model engineering companies with the skills and customer service to support these start selling them?

Neil

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

I Believe!

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Neil,

In view of your recent experience with Maplin … do please check for rounding errors before you make anything important.

MichaelG.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

I think they are taking the p with their advertising on that item – showing gears, shoes etc. It may be the advertising chain of people are all believing the hype or have seen a few videos of the serious professional machines and don't realise the limitations of the product they are selling.

All up, though I am normally a fan of Velleman kits, I think there are going to be a lot of disappointed people seriously out of pocket. Another danger is they turn up at the local ME club looking for help and we have to put in a lot of work or at least explain they have wasted their money.

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

I ralised the xamples weren#t made on the machine – I can see some people might not realise this.

The blurb lets on it is basically a reprap and runs on reprap software..

Neil

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

An expensive RepRap variant compared to this for example.

Russell.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

For the record …

I've found the original Daily Mail article about those shoes.

MichaelG.

.

Edit: Whilst remaining non-judgemental about footwear preference … I think these mechanisms might be of more interest.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 21/06/2013 08:51:07

[Tony JeffreeParticipant @tonyjeffree56510]

Posted by Russell Eberhardt on 21/06/2013 07:53:55:

An expensive RepRap variant compared to this for example.

Russell.

Certainly more expensive, but the 200mm cube build volume is considerably larger too.

Regards,

Tony

[Chris HeapyParticipant @chrisheapy71135]

These devices still fall into the 'clever gizmo' bracket rather than 'useful gizmo' (to me anyway). I've looked through the examples of things that can be produced with one and none represent a desirable object. Plastic shoes, gears, trinkets, ornaments and knick-knacks. Sure, I would like to have a bit of fun with one, but not at the price being asked.

Chris

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

The first home computer printer I got to use wrote using sparks to burn marks on silvered paper. Now you can get home printers that rival or better photographic prints. R.I.P. Max Spielman!

If a reprap can do this now, what will they do in 10 or 20 years?

Neil

[Chris HeapyParticipant @chrisheapy71135]

When it prints in cast iron or steel I'll buy one. They already have something that works with gold.. after a fashion anyway.

Chris

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

Posted by Chris Heapy on 26/06/2013 18:46:42:

When it prints in cast iron or steel I'll buy one. They already have something that works with gold.. after a fashion anyway.

Chris

Careful Chris or you might be spending your money very quickly! I think they do already use metal deposition techniques (or laser fusing) to create 3D parts in strong alloy steel.

Ian P

[S.D.L.Participant @s-d-l]

Posted by Chris Heapy on 26/06/2013 18:46:42:

When it prints in cast iron or steel I'll buy one. They already have something that works with gold.. after a fashion anyway.

Chris

They are already used to make masters direct from 3D CAD files that are then used as the starting point for lost wax castings in any material you want. At work its 316 stainless steel but could be cast iron. A member on this board has made one to make cosmetic details on his extrusion press model.

Steve

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by Chris Heapy on 26/06/2013 17:20:02:

These devices still fall into the 'clever gizmo' bracket rather than 'useful gizmo' (to me anyway). I've looked through the examples of things that can be produced with one and none represent a desirable object. Plastic shoes, gears, trinkets, ornaments and knick-knacks. Sure, I would like to have a bit of fun with one, but not at the price being asked.

Chris

Not so Chris you need to think out of the box.

Model Engineer 4458 the one with the Lynx radial on the cover.

Inside there is a write up of this model in general, on page 853 it shows the cylinder head built up from PVC and then silicon rubber moulds were made, then wax patterens cast to go to the foundry for lost wax casting.

This is an ideal application for a 3D print model.

[Chris HeapyParticipant @chrisheapy71135]

I had thought of that and nearly mentioned it, but I don't make my own castings or mouldings so it didn't apply to me. I agree that is a useful function if you can make use of it.

Chris

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Another thing I though of was a while ago a customer of mine, large rewind company, had a small universal fan motor with plastic bell end that held the brushes and tail bearing.

Tail bearing siezed and melted the housing, tiny motor, just fitted into the palm of your hand but weird config.

Siemens wanted £900 for a new motor and 6 weeks wait. Managed to repair it but very time consuming but if it had burnt the brush holders away it would have been a nightmare to repair with an insulating material.

3D printing one would have been a doddle and paid for the machine outright.

[Chris HeapyParticipant @chrisheapy71135]

Are the structural qualities of the available 'printing' plastics suitable for things like that? I thought they were all LMP thermoplastics – any sort of heat you end up with a puddle of plastic.

Chris

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

Most home printers print in either or both PLA or ABS..pla is lower melt point and I have yet to find any production parts made in it..ABS is widly used…think leggo bricks… But pla can be removed by soak in hot caustic soda solution…so one could print mould..fill with epoxy then desolve mould….also maybe Lost wax process and “MICRO FOUNDRY” techniques. .this process is still in infancy so all the wrinkles have yet to be thought of let alone solved…btw printing in stainless steel and laser sintering have yet to hit domestic machines… but I can’t wait

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Last year I bought a laser cutter, A3 sized. before buying it I did a fair bit of research as to what i would use it for. Worked out that it would be 10% workhorse and 90% John's toy and hopefully get better.

 

Currently it's standing at about 60% work and 40% toy but in all fairness of that 40% my grand daughters , 9 and 10 use it more than i do.

 

Point being is that once you get the technology it soon expands to niche markets you never thought of.

 

 

That hole in the middle is 0.75mm and the other one on the arm is 0.5mm.

Those gaskets which take 14 seconds to cut get a new lease of life out of a £125 vacuum valve.

All that goes wrong with the valve is crud on the brass seat, a quick clean and it's fine but they don't sell a gasket, only a new valve. The gaskets rip when stripped and cannot be reused and sealant only gets in the vac lines.

 

It's been costing the company about £250 a month on replacements.

Edited By John Stevenson on 26/06/2013 23:26:55

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, the Velleman 3D printer may well be an expensive novelty for many who may well sell it on for less once the novelty has waned, but no doubt there will be those who will achieve positive useful results with it and even make mods to improve its fucntion. Could be a very useful low cost R&D for the developers of the machine once they get a bit of feedback.

It can be amazing what the outcome of the home experimenter can contribute to further the usefulness of such a tool with ideas that have been dissmissed or overlooked. Whatever, I don't think 3D printing in the home workshop will go away no more than CNC will.

I don't think that I'm likely to buy one anytime soon, if ever, though.

Regards Nick.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Stub Mandrel on 26/06/2013 17:54:04:

The first home computer printer I got to use wrote using sparks to burn marks on silvered paper.

Neil

Sparks on silvered paper? Luxury that were. All we 'ad were matrixes of pins punching dotty square letters on to special "tractor feed" paper with rows of holes down the side.

Yes, within 10 years or probably less, we may well be building model engines out of cast iron and brass powder on 3D printers.

[SpringbokParticipant @springbok]

John

I would be very interested on what laser cutter you purchased
Bob

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

Hopper…you descride what I am sure you know is a dot matrix impact printer .. still useful today used with some “waxed” paper to make etch. masks for some brands / types of electro etching tools..print mask..fit to gadget check salty water pad ..apply to part wait 10s and off you go to next part.r

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by jason udall on 27/06/2013 09:18:35:
Hopper…you descride what I am sure you know is a dot matrix impact printer .. still useful today used with some "waxed" paper to make etch. masks for some brands / types of electro etching tools..print mask..fit to gadget check salty water pad ..apply to part wait 10s and off you go to next part.r

Sounds like the stencils we used to use with a typewriter to print our catalogeus back in the seventies.

Russell.

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by jason udall on 26/06/2013 22:46:08:
But pla can be removed by soak in hot caustic soda solution…so one could print mould..fill with epoxy then desolve mould….also maybe Lost wax process and "MICRO FOUNDRY" techniques.

You can also use lost PLA rather than lost wax casting. Good video here.

Russell.

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