Plastic Balls in Bearings?

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

+1 for steel ball brgs vs plastic when replacing failed ones.

Vacuum cleaners are a throwaway product these days and are always built down to a price like all mass market appliances. If they last the warranty period length plus a couple weeks that is mission accomplished.

Dyson's real achievement is a marketing and advert campaign that convinces people that their vacuums have better or more "leading edge" technology than other brand appliances. Take one apart and you will see very little actual technical innovation, but lots of visual gimmicks with transparent cones, funnels, bits going around, and lots of inaccessible areas jammed with dust and lint.

Their stuff may be designed in UK but look at the boxes and it is made in Thailand and Malaysia.

I'd say the best empty catchphrase they have gotten away with is advertising they have a 'digital motor'. Digital motor control circuit, sure, but 'digital motor', that's just marketing / advertising hot air.

My opinion only – Just my $0.02 worth – your mileage may vary.

Edited By Jeff Dayman on 25/02/2019 04:27:21

Edited By Jeff Dayman on 25/02/2019 04:27:58

[John McNamaraParticipant @johnmcnamara74883]

Hi All

Hi all If you have not experienced Ave then you may be in for a shock. And yes he does have a very fruity command of the English language… Er Canadian with all that prevails in the tundra.

He has a passion for taking Dyson gadgets to bits!

**LINK**

So put your hard hat on and dig in for a bumpy ride.

I must admit I think he is rather skukem.

Regards
John

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

Dyson BTW are the top bar on the graph outselling their nearest rival by three to one.

Edited By Chris Trice on 25/02/2019 09:23:08

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Posted by Chris Trice on 25/02/2019 09:14:04:

Dyson BTW are the top bar on the graph outselling their nearest rival by three to one.

Edited By Chris Trice on 25/02/2019 09:23:08

I wonder why? Everyone I know that owns one has had problems with them from very early on.

Martin.

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

The company have a very skilled marketing and advert staff – that's all. They can convince people to buy them.

Mr AvE calls it as he sees it – and he knows cheap consumer grade crap when he sees it apart.

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

Don't we all?

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

One further AvE video observation – in AvE's review of the Dyson "Ball Animal" vacuum he finds an off the shelf Panasonic vac motor inside.

No issue at all with them using this motor – Panasonic vacuums have done very well at our house – had two, both went about 5x the warranty life, at about 1/3 the cost of a Dyson. The Panasonic vac motors are pretty good, I'd say, based on my experience. However, Dyson advertised this Ball model as having revolutionary new Dyson motor technology.

My wife foolishly listened to a colleague's recommendation and bought a new Dyson vac between the two Panasonic ones we have bought. The Dyson product was a major disappointment from the start, it just did not perform, and it needed several repairs in the first month (broken switch actuator levers, broken latches, split hose). We passed it on to another couple who desperately wanted a Dyson and were also disappointed. With the two Panasonic units, no such nonsense at all.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

The odd thing about Dyson is they seem to invest in customer support and replacing faulty parts rather than reliability.

They have been wonderful at replacing failed parts for their machines, but in contrast my Earlex/Wickes Workshop vac is 17 years old with no fails* and Hetty is about 8 with no signs of wearing out.

Neil

*Aside from about 1/2" at the end of the nozzle being worn away by me rubbing it on a swarfy carpet and the time I spilt Ferric Chloride in it and had to open it up and replace the on off switch as a result.

[Sam StonesParticipant @samstones42903]

Hi Will,

I sent you a PM.

Regards,

Sam

[Sam StonesParticipant @samstones42903]

Neil Wyatt wrote …

The odd thing about Dyson is they seem to invest in customer support and replacing faulty parts rather than reliability.

It's more than odd Neil – I would go so far as to say –

The odd thing about Dyson is they seem to invest in customer support and (yet) replace faulty parts with faulty parts.

After months of emailing; three replacements; submitting a lengthy technical report; one of eight brave bods let me into a secret.

I should look for the product release number. Any product prior to this (and I can substantiate this from the replacements we received) should be suspect.

Sam

[Geoff TheasbyParticipant @geofftheasby]

Re: Dyson, I originally got one because they are good at picking up dog hair. They filter the air, which helps asthmatics, they do not lose suction, you can see when they are full. I also have a newer VAX. It clogs up regularly, sometimes every time it is used. It is lighter, and it is cordless.

[Cornish JackParticipant @cornishjack]

If you feel that you really have to pay that sort of silly money for a vacuum cleaner, go for real quality with a Sebo … no, I don't have shares but I DO have two such and with HEPA filters they will certainly sort out the hairy dog problem – we have cats … same sort of problem!

rgds

Bill

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Our Panasonic is so old that I cannot remember when it was bought.

The only problems have been the hose coming out of the end fitting from time to time (several years) and the brushes wore out on the large head, which combined with the rollers failing, made a replacement necessary.

My wife used to fund raise for a local cat refuge, in the market.. Next door was a stall selling spares for vacuum cleaners. he seemed to have huge array of parts for Dysons, not many for Panasonics.

As a suspicious Luddite, cannot but fear that the Dyson is leading edge high tech, but possibly like Clkive Sinclair's advanced engineering, less durable / reliable

If I wanted a vac for the shop, I would opt for a Numatic, (Henry or one of his cousins).

Howard

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

I recently got a small ash vac from Lidl. Intended for sucking up the ash from a fire grate so short hose and no carpet tool. It is ideal for the workshop as is takes less space than the wet'n'dry and sucks harder than any I've ever known. Obviously I call her Monica. I doubt it has a good duty cycle so wouldn't do for a wood shop but metalworkers mostly only need short stints.

[Sam StonesParticipant @samstones42903]

After drafting my note directly into this forum, including my opinion that much of their design was impressive, when I hit the Add Posting ‘GO’ button my note blew away into cyber space.

In revamping what I had written, I forgot to include that the shift to overseas manufacture seemed to spell the start of the technical problems.

The good news has been that I repaired the fault on the three devices with nothing more than some reinforcing wire and a few blobs of Araldite.

Anyone wanting to see/learn more of my saga should PM me with their return email address.

Sam

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

Most of the pullies on my yacht have delrin balls in the roller bearings in them. The furling gear , which takes considerable load applied by a winch, has delrin balls in the swivels

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

Presumably because of the corrosion steel bearings would suffer in close contact with sea water. Plastic bearings are more than capable in non dimension critical situations.

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

Back in my car restoration days, I used to specialise in Triumph sports cars and the lower front bronze trunnions of the Herald/Vitesse/Spitfire/GT6 cars, that carried all the weight of the front of the car, had simple plastic bushes shaped like top hats about 11/16" OD and 9/16" I.D. with a steel sleeve inside that. Yes, they wore eventually but they were easy to fix and obviously deemed up to the job.

Edited By Chris Trice on 26/02/2019 20:07:33

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Following the comment from Chris, about suspension bushes.

In the 70s, Leyland Leopard buses and coaches with Dunlop air suspension, used two Glacier DU top hat bushes for the each of the shackle pins on the taper leaf spring which acted as radius arms to locate the axles.

The wear was not on the circular part of the bush, thanks to the automatic chassis lubrication, but on the side face (Brim of the Top Hat ) The side play on the front axle would eventually reach the point where there was wheel wobble ( presumably caused by the castor angle fighting the misaligned wheels ) One extreme case despite locking one's arms and shoulders, shook the powered doors open. A certain Vehicle Off Road until new bushes had been fitted.

A quick and nasty short term fix was to shim the side play with a large washer, to keep the vehicle running until the new bushes arrived, and could be fitted,;usually next day

Howard.

Excess word deleted

Edited By Howard Lewis on 27/02/2019 17:08:01

[Jon LawesParticipant @jonlawes51698]

Posted by Chris Trice on 26/02/2019 20:06:29:

Back in my car restoration days, I used to specialise in Triumph sports cars and the lower front bronze trunnions of the Herald/Vitesse/Spitfire/GT6 cars, that carried all the weight of the front of the car, had simple plastic bushes shaped like top hats about 11/16" OD and 9/16" I.D. with a steel sleeve inside that. Yes, they wore eventually but they were easy to fix and obviously deemed up to the job.

Edited By Chris Trice on 26/02/2019 20:07:33

Funnily enough I'm about to look at a solution to the trunnion design on my GT6. The high kerbs at some circuits does give it all quite a beating and someday I suspect a trunnion will make a bid for freedom. I see some based on a Caterham design are knocking around but I really would like a better solution. I could be tempted to start from scratch with rose joints.

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

Rose joints are great for racing but they tend to wear quickly. All the exotic kit cars like GT40 replicas use them but they wear badly and make the car a bit of a bone shaker on the road. Actually the Triumph front wishbone suspension units were very highly thought of. Lotus used them on their early Elans. The secret is to keep the threads on the bottom of the trunnion well lubricated. Better not to talk bout the rear end unless you have the rubber doughnut rear suspension.

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

Posted by Chris Trice on 27/02/2019 18:55:16:

Rose joints are great for racing but they tend to wear quickly. All the exotic kit cars like GT40 replicas use them but they wear badly and make the car a bit of a bone shaker on the road. Actually the Triumph front wishbone suspension units were very highly thought of. Lotus used them on their early Elans. The secret is to keep the threads on the bottom of the trunnion well lubricated. Better not to talk bout the rear end unless you have the rubber doughnut rear suspension.

'Better not to talk bout the rear end unless you have the rubber doughnut rear suspension.'

Why?

Ian P

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

Transverse leaf spring and a tendency for the rear wheels to tuck under. The system was tweaked to make it slightly better on later cars but still somewhat tail happy in the wet going around roundabouts. The rubber doughnut version used a lower wishbone rear rather than letting the axle shafts take the strain.

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

…… together with a sudden loss of grip at the rear end as the axles swing under the car pivoting at the UJ at the differential. There is no slow transition. It tends to go from grip to no grip very quickly.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Closing the throttle, or braking, when cornering on any swing axle car i( such as the original VW Beetle, Triumph or Skoda 100 Series) will cause the rear wheel to tuck under. This usually precedes a visit to the the local countryside!

As Chris says, the transition from safe to Whoops! is pretty rapid, and not to be encouraged.

Howard

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