Noga vs. Warco?

[MM57Participant @mm57]

Warco product 9151
http://www.warco.co.uk/magnetic-bases–stands/317-magnetic-stands.html
…and select "350mm w/Dovetail clamp"
…£27.99 shipped

vs.

Noga DG61003, e.g.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121446856201
…about £100 shipped from the USA and allegedly all taxes paid

The Noga gets good youtube praise (abom79, doubleboost etc) and looks the dogs danglies – I'm always fighting the cheap "two rods, fiddly clamps and weak magnetic base" version that's about £15 that provides unstable indicator position where it wants it to be,rather than a stable position where I want it to be

[MM57Participant @mm57]

[wheeltapperParticipant @wheeltapper]

Personally, if I could afford it I'd go with Noga all the way.

As I can't afford it I'd rather go without.

Roy.

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

The Warco looks like a generic Chinese offering (possibly also the Noga?). I have something similar: it works fine and is in constant use. While the Noga has import duties paid there is no mention of VAT.

I think the Warco (or Chronos or RDG) will do the job.

Rod

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

There are two issues: versatility and price.

Noga DG61003 knobs seem to be versatile. According to Noga's site, it has their magnetic base DG0036 which has a 800 N force pull. Where it is made, dont know.

Most of the cheaper Chinese 'fixed' stem type stands in the £15.00 to £20.00 range inc.VAT and carriage have a 60kg pull, which is fine for most users.

Other Chinese ball and socket stem type similar to Noga but with different knobs – versatility, also have 80kg pull which is similar to Noga DG0036 base specifications. Chinese price for these type £25.00 ~£30.00 inc.vat and carriage.

It is not clear what kg pull the Warco base has, and the link you have given is for a fixed stem type.

When doing comparisons, I would suggest that you take the above points into consideration.

Ketan at ARC.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I've been using one like this for years usually with a 1/10,000 dti on it.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Heavy-Duty-Dial-Test-Indicator-Magnetic-Base-DTI-Stand-For-Dial-Gauges-NEW-UK-/181445575807?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2a3effc47f

Bought from Alpine House who some may remember. The arm adjustment is rather useful. I also use a small magnetic base with a finger type DTI on the end. Usually the machine slides can be used to position that. The other stand is handy when that is not possible. I assume these are the same products as when I bought one and also in real terms cheaper. It was a rather new idea then and actually pretty expensive compared with others they sold.

John

–

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

They are available from a more reputable source, generally beyond reproach

**LINK**

Same one as on ebay? Pass. Sometimes the same thing is made to a better standard. Sometimes not.

John

–

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

> the cheap "two rods, fiddly clamps and weak magnetic base" version

Sir John of Ilkeston recommended to me that I replace the bar with a spring in the middle with a plain one. I did, and I haven't looked back.

Neil

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I just make sure there is some tension in the spring Neil. Rotating the bar with the spring on to where it needs to be does exercise the grey matter. I have seen no reason to change mine at all. They sold well and I have seen them in several work places.

The only catch I see is that it can be hard to know which way the spring will be bent when the DTI gets where intended so some tension in the spring is needed – bends the arm and reduces the reach but that has never caused me any problems.

John

–

[clivelParticipant @clivel]

I was fortunate find an almost brand new Noga DG61003 at a very reasonable price on a garage sale last summer.

At first I thought that it may be overkill on my little Unimat, but in actual fact it has worked out very well. One of the disadvantages of this lathe with a round rod bed, is that the only suitable place for a mag base is on the cross slide. Prior to getting the Noga it could take 10 to 15 minutes of frustrating juggling to get the DI into a usable position in relation to the work.
Now it is simplicity itself taking less than a minute. My left hand grasps the DI, my right hand releases all joints in the articulated arms with a half turn of the black knob, thus allowing the DI to be moved almost friction free into position. A half turn back on the knob locks it all up solid again.

Compared to the no-name-brand mag base I was using before, besides being a far more practical design, it is also extremely well made, with no rough edges it has a quality feel, and the locking screws lock with the minimum of force and stay locked. Definitely not a cheap made in China item, I believe that it is made in Israel.

In my situation, I have found it such a time saver, that even at the full eBay price, it would have been well worth it.

Clive

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

Posted by Ketan Swali on 15/06/2015 16:40:13:

There are two issues: versatility and price.

Noga DG61003 knobs seem to be versatile. According to Noga's site, it has their magnetic base DG0036 which has a 800 N force pull. Where it is made, dont know.

Most of the cheaper Chinese 'fixed' stem type stands in the £15.00 to £20.00 range inc.VAT and carriage have a 60kg pull, which is fine for most users.

Other Chinese ball and socket stem type similar to Noga but with different knobs – versatility, also have 80kg pull which is similar to Noga DG0036 base specifications. Chinese price for these type £25.00 ~£30.00 inc.vat and carriage.

It is not clear what kg pull the Warco base has, and the link you have given is for a fixed stem type.

When doing comparisons, I would suggest that you take the above points into consideration.

Ketan at ARC.

I was always led to believe that Noga are made in Israel .

I would love one but the cost is a killer !

Ian.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Agreed, Noga are from Israel, and the components, or the base, or the the complete assembly may be made in Israel or somewhere else. I am aware that Israel is self sufficient. Perhaps I should have stayed off the subject of origin. Sorry

I am trying to suggest that Martin needs to compare Chinese ball and socket stem types with 80kg pull, with Noga DG61003, and then make the judgement on versatility vs price, for his requirements.

Ketan at ARC.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by John W1 on 15/06/2015 17:17:28:

I just make sure there is some tension in the spring Neil. Rotating the bar with the spring on to where it needs to be does exercise the grey matter. I have seen no reason to change mine at all. They sold well and I have seen them in several work places.

The only catch I see is that it can be hard to know which way the spring will be bent when the DTI gets where intended so some tension in the spring is needed – bends the arm and reduces the reach but that has never caused me any problems.

John

–

Maybe, but as John S. pointed out – when did I last use the spring to adjust the position of the DTI? As the answer was 'once, when I was figuring out what it did' I think I'm better off with it sitting on the shelf waiting for the day it might be needed

Neil

[MM57Participant @mm57]

Thanks all – lots of defence for the "fixed stem" version, but that's what I have and I generally find it a complete hindrance…I get all the angles correct and can't tighten the knobs as the brackets are in the way, so you have to re-arrange everything, and it becomes a mini-project just to get the DTI where I want etc

@Ketan – my probably "60kg pull" version is pretty hopeless, it won't support itself at reasonable extension with a DTI fitted when stuck sideways onto the mill column. It might be 60kg to pull it off vertically, but it rocks sideways far to easily IMHO. Mind you the Noga is only 81kg pull so not a huge difference, and the sideways grip isn't defined

@clivel – those were pretty much my thoughts – it seems that it's as easy to set up the the DTI travel axis at just about any angle in just about any position in say a 9" diameter sphere resting on the top of the mag block as any other position and just as quickly and with a fine adjust when you get there (OK, not every point on the sphere probably, but the articulation of the arms and the holder does seem remarkable)

..and then I noticed a "20% off everything on eBay until 12:00 tonight" email I got today, so decided to pull the trigger on the Noga – only to find the 20% off redemption code has run out of its funding

So still not ordered, just yet – I see they are available in the UK at about 20% more than eBay from the States (so the same price if I get charged VAT on the incoming package)
http://www.mqs.co.uk/noga-dg61003-noga-magnetic-base-type-on-off-switchable-magnet-magnet-size-50x60x55-wxlxh-bottom-arm-length-110mm-top-arm-length-101mm-holder-length-71mm-over-all-length-282mm-force-800n.html

 

Edited By Martin Millener on 15/06/2015 23:12:58

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I use the spring adjustment nearly every time I use it but then as I have had it for a long time I'm used to it. I generally set the plates the spring presses on parallel or leave where they happen to be.

If I'm not using that I use this currently with the long finger fitted. I can also use it on the other stand.

 

The tin is full of boxford change wheels and my favourite stone for tools and a larger one intended for sharpening microtome blades I am playing with sits on top. The smaller stone is back to it's old self now I have used a diamond lap to remove the HSS clogging it up. It's improved the microtome one too but that one is insanely fine.

Forgot to mention the bar just above the magnet on the finger DTI stand is also a spring but I have lost the screw that adjusts it some how. Need to make another. The joints are ball joints. Easy arrangement to make if some has a ball turning gizmo. The plates each side of the balls just have depressions in them.

John

–

Edited By John W1 on 16/06/2015 00:06:01

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

The 2nd one from top left has a fine adjustment but they don't really say how it works or the travel.

**LINK**

John

–

[clivelParticipant @clivel]

Martin,
It is a pity that you missed out on the 20% redemption code

@Ketan – my probably "60kg pull" version is pretty hopeless, it won't support itself at reasonable extension with a DTI fitted when stuck sideways onto the mill column. It might be 60kg to pull it off vertically, but it rocks sideways far to easily IMHO. Mind you the Noga is only 81kg pull so not a huge difference, and the sideways grip isn't defined

I regularly use it mounted on the round column of the Unimat milling attachment, as this is about the most practical way of aligning the milling table (when fitted).

The Noga grasps very strongly in the vertical mode, there is absolutely no slippage, and horizontally there is no rocking at all. It is however possible to grasp it firmly and rotate it around the column. It takes a fair amount of force to do this, so there is very little danger of this happening accidentally.

Clive

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

I found the ones with the divider type spring in the middle amplified any roughness in the work or setup and made the reading go all over the place that's why I changed them for a straight bit of 10mm bar.

Gert MKI [ God rest her soul ] and not the current Gert MKII bought a shed load of these from China to resell on so I took the opportunity to replace all my Ellipse magnetic stands with these. In all fairness the Ellipse stands were quite old and had a decent life.

They have enough pull for anything I do and I must admit most of what I have gets used to the limit. Now the springs have been removed they work well. Probably got about 7 or 8 kicking about with all different sorts of clocks on them.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Mine is by Draper. Not sure but this is likely to be after they bought Mit and tried to sell expensive under their own name. It even states made in Japan on it. I did have a finger DTI and holder etc later that was definitely from that period. The adjustment on this one is a little on the coarse side for a 1/10,000 dti really but not that bad. I recently bought the dti that is on it. My previous one was showing signs of plunger wear – the readings drift in a direction according to the way things are rotated. I generally use the tip of dti's to gauge by eye before actually engaging the plunger. The long travel is there for mishaps really.

The spring on the finger dti stand is a better arrangement in some ways. It's very hefty and at the bottom of the main stem and has a limited range of adjustment. The "spring".can only compress by about 1.5mm Not sure how Mit adjust the one I linked to. The price isn't too bad for their equipment.

John

–

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Makes me laugh.

The whole thread is about getting more pull on the magnet to make it stiffer and not move and then you go and fit a spring into the equation and at the wrong end if you take leverage into account.

Best smile this week so far.

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

Posted by Martin Millener on 15/06/2015 23:11:25:

So still not ordered, just yet – I see they are available in the UK at about 20% more than eBay from the States (so the same price if I get charged VAT on the incoming package)

You will likely also be charged a significant 'handling charge' on top of the VAT by Royal Mail (assuming they handle the import).

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Posted by John Stevenson on 16/06/2015 10:35:27:

Makes me laugh.

 

The whole thread is about getting more pull on the magnet to make it stiffer and not move and then you go and fit a spring into the equation and at the wrong end if you take leverage into account.

 

Best smile this week so far.

LOL More of a I have more pull than you debate. I don't have any pull problems at all as I am happily married. I did have once or seemed to.

Maybe these things will have so much pull at some point people will have to demagnetise their machines. To be honest the numbers sound a little like an advertising gimmick but people could convert to Kg force – I think.

John

–

Edited By John W1 on 16/06/2015 11:03:27

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Posted by John Stevenson on 16/06/2015 10:35:27:

The whole thread is about getting more pull on the magnet to make it stiffer and not move and then you go and fit a spring into the equation and at the wrong end if you take leverage into account.

Not really The OP said " and select 350mm w/Dovetail clamp"

This is the item Martin was referring to:

I don't know what the pull is on mine but it certainly holds in place upside down or sideways on my milling machine. Doesn't this sort have wire inside to lock everything up when you turn the arm knob?

But I certainly agree about the spring adjustable, I've got one of those as well and have ditched the spring bar for a solid one.

Cheers,

Rod

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Looks like the only thing that has changed on the Draper one is the colour of the magnet.

**LINK**

If those are Mit quality dti's that isn't a bad price. The finger dti kit they did most definitely was.

I'd say that means that they have been making them for not sure 20 years or so. But if people can't get on with them fine. Personally I feel that one place to lock the lot would be good but I would still want the fine adjustment. All I do with mine is set the handles at a tension where I can still move it around and then use the fine adjustment. It might not suite a very small lathe

Not sure how much pull it has.

It's the one I use most hence not mounting the other one on a quick change tool holder for use in the lathe. It could easily be removed from that to use on the miller if needed. The finger DTI kits usually come with a tool post holder.It odd there isn't one shown in the link. The spring on this magnetic holder is exceedingly stiff.

John

–

[MM57Participant @mm57]

Posted by Roderick Jenkins on 16/06/2015 12:06:23:

Posted by John Stevenson on 16/06/2015 10:35:27:

This is the item Martin was referring to:

…Doesn't this sort have wire inside to lock everything up when you turn the arm knob?

Yep, that's the one. The inside is a cunningly simple rod in each arm with bevelled ends and the centre knob essentially drives a wedge between the rod ends which locks everything up. The "wire inside" ones are the ones that look like a snake.

This video shows a similar Noga in action
**LINK**

..and this shows the dismantling and fettling of a chinese copy
**LINK**

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