Just How Many File Types Do We Need?

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

My club secretary has just forwarded me two papers.

Unfortunately they arrived in some strange format called .ODT, as useful to me as if in raw ones and noughts.

DOCX and .XLSX are bad enough – causing me many problems in the past.

 

What the heck is ODT though?

An insecticide banned for liability to “icide” anything else? A popular Victorian complaint associated with The Vapours, called Over-Dramatic Tremors?

 

Microsoft Windows-11, baffled by it, can uselessly offer only either its own “Media Player” or Firefox to open it.

Investigating revealed only a slew of advertisements for companies selling translation programmes. These showed, apart from the IT trade’s insatiable greed, possibly well over 100 arcane file-types and converters, grouped into just a few basically similar few operations. Come on – practically all computers work in the same way, even use the same circuits; and Microsoft has practically monopolised them all. So why so many different file formats?

 

The Steam-engine’s 19C developers created one patented way after another just to link the bits going up and down to the bits going round and round. The customer just wanted something going-rounding to drive his factory machines.

I can’t help  thinking computing is in the same phase.

[Mark EasingwoodParticipant @markeasingwood33578]

Hi Nigel,

ODT files are used by Open Office and Libre Office, alternatives to microsoft word/office 360.

Microsoft office should open them, you can then “Save As” a DOCX if you want.

Libre Office and Open Office are open source software, much used as an alternative to Microsoft Office.

I think DOCX files are probably  the property of Microsoft.

Mark.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Nigel.

Ten seconds on your preferred search engine will almost certainly give you a description of any file type you encounter.

MichaelG.

.

Ferinstance:

[Kiwi BlokeParticipant @kiwibloke62605]

Look at the Wikipedia page ‘OpenDocument’ for an explanation, the history and the rationale behind this file type. It aims to help reduce the stranglehold of the likes of Micros***t foisting ever more proprietary file types on the world. The history of .docx is worth looking up…

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

You can download libre office here:

https://www.libreoffice.org/download/download-libreoffice/

But any reasonably recent version of Word should open an odt file.

If not then open in libre office and save as .doc if you must. Unless for further editing your club secretary would best be saving docs as pdfs.

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

A few flat ones, a couple of round and half round, and perhaps a couple of square and three square ones seem to do the trick for most stuff.  Oh, and some needle files.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Thankyou Bo’sun! Yes, I find that too!

….

I solved the problem eventually, after being advised to instal Open Office – which I’d always thought runs on Linux.

I certainly would not want a DOCX file: I cannot use those either (unless OO will deal with them).

All stems from that lot in Seattle trying to maintain that stranglehold….

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

You must have a very old copy of Word not to cope with docx! The oldest file in that format I found in a 2 minute search on my hard disc dates from 2010.  The format is the “Open XML Document Format” which was actually designed to permit portability between packages. If you have a more recent copy of Word then there must be an incorrect setting within the program, or possibly in your Windows file association settings.

Libreoffice opens docx files perfectly fine, because it is open.  I’m running LO now on a R-Pi 500 and it happily opens docx files and so far preserves all the formatting.

Just to add also that LO Calc, their Excel equivalent, is so far compatible with all the spreadsheets I’ve tried even running the macros correctly.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Windows 11 won’t open an Open Document File unless a suitable word processor is installed.  A recent version of MS-Word should open odt with no bother.   An ancient version might not.

Nigel’s mention of Media Player and Firefox suggest he’s trying to open the odt with File Explorer, or perhaps from inside an email client, and the association is missing.  Some of the ways file associations can be added on Windows are explained on this website.  Much more available – ask Mr Google.

May be easier to start MS-Word and open the file directly.  Or LibreOffice.

Firefox may be worth pursuing – on my machine it displays odt files by starting Libre Writer.  But I already have LibreOffice installed, not Word.  Microsoft have a bad habit of elbowing other software out of the way, so if Word and LibreOffice are installed, Microsoft  may have overwritten the odt association set up by LibreOffice’s installer.

Nigel’s comparison between Victorian valve gear and the profusion of computer file types has legs, except for the assumption that customers want simplicity!  They do, except copyright, patents, cheapness, functionality, efficiency, security, reliability, reputation and gee-whizz advertising tend to take priority.    Oh, and what can be done with computers is far more complex than valve gear, and, so far, there is no end to computerisation in sight.    Each new development is likely to add another file type, perhaps several, no doubt confusing everybody for the next 10 years!

As with Artificial Intelligence being the best hope of rendering computer error messages comprehensible, so too is AI best hope for sorting out file association and similar glitches.   Rather than forcing the user to look techie stuff up and fiddle with configuration settings,  an AI capability inside the computer could automate diagnosis and fix.   It’s coming: the latest generation of microprocessor chips incorporate machine-learning hardware.

Dave

 

 

[Bo’sun]

On Bo’sun Said:

A few flat ones, a couple of round and half round, and perhaps a couple of square and three square ones seem to do the trick for most stuff.  Oh, and some needle files.

I can never understand why they call a triangular shaped file a three square.

Not only the shapes you stated but I would have a Bastard, 2nd and finishing as well as the needle files

[VicParticipant @vic]

I found out some years ago that Libre Office, my now preferred version of Open Office can open quite a wide range of document types. Well worth having on a desktop. I also have an app on my iPad that can open OO files which is quite handy.
I always liked Microsoft Word but it got a bit bloated and I’m subscription adverse. Sadly the online version has some features that I used to like missing.

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

The open Document Committee was formed to try to resolve the problem of transfering files between programs supplied by different software vendors.  Microsoft joined that committee in 2006.  The committee came up with a format (ODF) that was eventually published as an international standard.  Microsoft decided to stick to their own .doc format and keep changing it so that documents written on Word etc. cannot easily be read by software other than their own.  Many international organisations, including NATO, insist on their documents being saved in Open Document Format.

Russell

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

I suppose my edition of ‘Word’ is “old” by Microsoft’s enforced obsolescence policy as it is in Office for Win-XP, but apart from recognising more file formats I doubt the latest edition of it does anything really significantly more than mine, or an earlier, one does. It does not surprise me though that MS has removed features.

I didn’t need take out a subscription either. I have it on a CD, complete with licence number, though did need buy an external CD drive to use it.

It wasn’t me who suggested using Firefox or Media Player to open the documents, but Windows! It could not find anything else.

[Russell Eberhardt]

On Russell Eberhardt Said:

[…] Microsoft decided to stick to their own .doc format and keep changing it so that documents written on Word etc. cannot easily be read by software other than their own.  […]

I remember when [early 1980s]they pulled that stunt to kill Lotus 123

… Excel was awfully good at importing other people’s files. but very bad at sharing its own.

Quite quickly, the business community decided it was simpler to use Excel … and the rest is history !

MichaelG.

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

LibreOffice is the successor to OpenOffice.org, commonly known as OpenOffice, which had its last major update in 2014. OpenOffice is no longer producing releases and has unfixed security issues over 18 months old – so all users are recommended to upgrade.

Libre Office

Libre Office is available for most operating systems and is pretty well the standard distribution supplied with many versions of Linux.

John

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, although I have Ms Office Home & Student 2007 on three laptops, my 11″ portable laptop does have Ms Word built in, and although it will open word and open office documents, it comes up with the statement, “unlicensed product” and most of the features are disabled, and say I can use it for free by signing in and using the web version. That’s all very well, but I bought a CD with an office suite from Pixel Classics. Obviously this is not as good as Ms Office, but it is compatible, and will open Ms word etc. and ODT’s. The one I bought was not very expensive at all, and seems to work just fine, and you don’t need a password for it, and you may put it on as many computers as you like, even those you don’t own, like family etc. No subscriptions costs ever, and it claims it will never expire.

Regards Nick.

[Nigel Graham 2]

On Nigel Graham 2 Said:

…It wasn’t me who suggested using Firefox or Media Player to open the documents, but Windows! It could not find anything else.

Not what I said!  The error message that suggested Firefox or Media Player is a diagnostic clue, implying that Nigel tried to open the odt from the likes of File Explorer, email, or a browser.

Nigel did something that triggered the suggestion that Firefox or Media Player were worth trying, the question is what?  Saying ‘It could not find anything else‘ doesn’t help because there is no ‘it’, Windows isn’t a monolith!  Actually a higher level component or configuration is faulty, for example:

• MS-Word is installed, but is so out-of-date it doesn’t understand odt files.   (Likely because Nigel has confirmed his copy of MS-Word is ancient!  Time to update it, Nigel!)
• An application that understands odt is installed, but the file association mechanism is misconfigured.  This is a list that simply says “open .doc with ms-word”, “open .dxf with Alibre”, “open .txt with Notepad” etc.   Alternatives are supported, as when Alibre and TurboCAD can both open .dxf.  And, in a limited way, it can list applications that might work, so the user can try them.

If this is to be fixed, helps to identify the cause.  If LibreOffice is installed and double clicking an odt email attachment doesn’t open the file, then the file association is broken, and I provided a link to a page covering how to fix it.   If MS-Word is so ancient that it doesn’t support odt, then the answer is to update MS-Word (or install LibreOffice.

Other members said much the same.   What have you tried Nigel?

Nigel’s update policy is probably unwise:   ‘I suppose my edition of ‘Word’ is “old” by Microsoft’s enforced obsolescence policy as it is in Office for Win-XP, but apart from recognising more file formats I doubt the latest edition of it does anything really significantly more than mine, or an earlier, one does.’   Office for Win-XP is well past it’s best-before date and doesn’t support what Nigel needs.  His reluctance to upgrade may be root cause.

Stretching the life of old computers and software is legitimate but has to be carefully managed.  Simply chugging along until the system fails is dangerous because small gaps grow into a chasm.   Leave upgrades too long and everything changes, starting with the hardware!  Many computer problems are avoided by upgrading step by step at the time.

Dave

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Dave, that’s a wise policy but Microsoft don’t make it easy to follow when in effect you are forced to upgrade the hardware and the old software doesn’t work properly.  In this case the easy fix would be to subscribe to 365 but that brings a whole load of bloat and AI nonsense with it.  That’s why I’ve finally decided to break the habit and switched to Linux as far as possible.  So far not too painful except for LibreOffice’s equation editor. Oh, and printing.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

For equations in Libre office I use either Math Editor or Smath Studio, both freeware. In both you have to take a screenshot (windows+S keys) and paste into the Libre office (ctrl+V keys). Smath is easier to construct equations, Math Editor is prettier.

Smath is very useful for doing actual sums, it’s a poor man’s Mathcad, which I used to use at work, but I’m not paying for, and the free version is very limited.

I don’t have any issues printing from Libre Office

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