Just bought an ML7, what should i do first?

[Shaun BelcherParticipant @shaunbelcher81617]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 08/09/2019 12:49:06:

I'd start by making a list of obvious defects then review the situation. Some problems, like a badly worn bed, leadscrew or bearings might cost more to fix than you want to spend. Ditto cracked headstock, duff motor and bad electrics. Keep an eye on the small stuff like gears, belts, and oilers too – costs soon add up.

Not sure what prices are like in NZ but in the UK Myford parts attract premium prices and can take a little time to source. Might not matter if the main interest is in restoring an old machine, could be a mistake if on a budget and the lathe is wanted quickly for work. Also depends on facilities, having a well-equipped workshop already is much better than starting from scratch if awkward faults are found. Paying someone else to do the work is likely to be prohibitive.

It's hard to assess a lathe just by looking at it. What appears to be a wreck may actually be in good order whilst an apparently clean machine could be scrap. Best thing in the absence of a helpful expert is to fire her up and see if it will cut metal. Putting a machine through it's paces will soon reveal shortcomings; loose slides, severe backlash, dicky half-nut, scored or seized bearings, misalignments, damaged gears, faulty switches, motor problems, bad chuck, bent tool-post etc. Don't panic though, quite a few faults on straightforward lathes like the ML7 are not difficult to fix. But risky enough to be worth knowing what you're getting into! Be a mistake I think to spend lots of time and money fixing minor issues only to discover something truly awful at the end, like a dished bed that can't be put right with a regrind.

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 08/09/2019 12:49:52

Yes Myford's parts are quite steep for some of them, I think the most significant cost would be if I have to replace the white metal bushings with the newer bronze type, as I would also have to replace the drive shaft with a new one from hardened steel too.

I might be able to get my local engine reconditioner to make new white metal bushings perhaps, since they have done this for engines ive rebuilt in the past.

For now I think the best thing to do is simply use the lathe and see whats needing attention.

Should have a better idea within the next week what is at fault. So far, all i can tell is that the backgear has a broken tooth and the leadscrews on the cross slide are sloppy and dials not working properly.

Im not planning on restoration anywhere in the short term anyway, but would like to know what parts I need beforehand so im not waiting on anything that will hold up the job.

Regardless of the condition, I plan to replace all the oil lite bushings and leadscrew nuts, etc.

Some of this I should be able to machine myself to save costs anyway.

[Shaun BelcherParticipant @shaunbelcher81617]

Posted by Meunier on 08/09/2019 16:39:08:

Shaun,

For oiling all the oil-nipples and the two headstock lubricators use ISO32 hydraulic oil and for the bed/leadscrews, etc use ISO VG68, both hydraulic oils should be easily available at agricultural dealers and are the direct equivalents for all the recommended Esso/Shell etc oils. If you want to treat the gears (after cleaning!) you can use the VG68 sparingly or some use motorcycle chain lube as it sticks a bit better to the gears.
HTH
DaveD

forgot to add good luck !

Thanks

Your correct, I was speaking to my neighbour who is an engineer and he said those are the two grades of oil they have at work, he is able to get me some to use, so thats all sorted

[Shaun BelcherParticipant @shaunbelcher81617]

Posted by old mart on 08/09/2019 18:40:56:

The fortunate thing about owning a Myford is that all the parts are available, second hand or new. Secondly, the knowledge base is huge. I have never seen a manual chuck made by Kitagawa before, they specialise in top end power chucks for cnc machines.

Thats one of the reasons I settled on a myford, ive seen a few fair boxfords around too but not sure what the parts situation is on those.

Interesting about the chuck, I dont know much about that brand, but until I find an original replacement chuck, ill use it for the time being, one advantage is its a bit bigger than those typically installed on a myford. I do see a few 4 jaw chucks too, which is something I might replace it with.

[Mark Gould 1Participant @markgould1]

Shaun, watch Geoffrey Crokers’s most excellent youtube channel where he restored an ML-7 to what looks like almost new. Most rewarding to watch. With some effort and advice for which this forum is the best place to be your ML-7 will be fitting fit again!

[Martin of WickParticipant @martinofwick]

1 Just skimming the top of the bed is unlikely to recover a worn item to an adequate condition, you will need to address all 4 sides of the shears.

2 The chuck is really too big for the lathe and if it has been used extensively or for a long period on that machine it will have caused accelerated wear to the front spindle bearing. There is a reason why Myford recommend you stick to a lighter 4 inch chuck on the ML7 . The other more obvious reason is that the larger chuck can rarely accommodate larger workpieces without the risk of the jaws engaging the lathe (as the damage to your machine so convincingly reveals).

3 The spindle bearings are not trivial items to deal with if worn. Yes in theory all you need to do is rip off a shim layer and check the fit to spindle , giving a scrape or two if needed (metal is very soft, grind up an old hacksaw blade for your scraping tools). In reality, front at back bearing wear at different rates and usually into an oval condition. This may give you some issues when setting them to re-establish correct spindle alignment. Expect to spend a considerable amount of time when re-setting the old bearings.

[Shaun BelcherParticipant @shaunbelcher81617]

Posted by Martin of Wick on 09/09/2019 12:00:01:

1 Just skimming the top of the bed is unlikely to recover a worn item to an adequate condition, you will need to address all 4 sides of the shears.

2 The chuck is really too big for the lathe and if it has been used extensively or for a long period on that machine it will have caused accelerated wear to the front spindle bearing. There is a reason why Myford recommend you stick to a lighter 4 inch chuck on the ML7 . The other more obvious reason is that the larger chuck can rarely accommodate larger workpieces without the risk of the jaws engaging the lathe (as the damage to your machine so convincingly reveals).

3 The spindle bearings are not trivial items to deal with if worn. Yes in theory all you need to do is rip off a shim layer and check the fit to spindle , giving a scrape or two if needed (metal is very soft, grind up an old hacksaw blade for your scraping tools). In reality, front at back bearing wear at different rates and usually into an oval condition. This may give you some issues when setting them to re-establish correct spindle alignment. Expect to spend a considerable amount of time when re-setting the old bearings.

Interesting to learn about the bed wear. I thought only the top side was what wears. Mine seems to have very little wear from what i can tell so far, but will have a better idea once I use it for a bit.

Putting shims on all 4 sides will also make things more complex possibly.

Yes I agree the chuck is too big and i intend on putting an original chuck back on when one turns up.

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

You can get a new back gear easy enough from RDG, mine was about NZ$60 if I recall correctly. Change wheels are not a problem until you want to cut threads, so long as you have enough to give you a useful fine feed. The price sounds pretty good considering the prices sometimes asked for Myfords here in NZ, even if you do have to do a bit of work. Don't rush into doing any major work. until you have had a bit of a play with it.

So whereabouts in NZ are you? I'm in Cambridge (NZ) myself.

John

[Shaun BelcherParticipant @shaunbelcher81617]

Posted by John Olsen on 10/09/2019 06:44:06:

You can get a new back gear easy enough from RDG, mine was about NZ$60 if I recall correctly. Change wheels are not a problem until you want to cut threads, so long as you have enough to give you a useful fine feed. The price sounds pretty good considering the prices sometimes asked for Myfords here in NZ, even if you do have to do a bit of work. Don't rush into doing any major work. until you have had a bit of a play with it.

So whereabouts in NZ are you? I'm in Cambridge (NZ) myself.

John

Hi John,

Yes been looking on RDG, also see a dealer on Ebay with used myford parts at reasonable prices.

Seems there are different ratios you can choose for back gears.

What one is typical for the ML7? Ive got to count the teeth on my broken one.

I see 21/56T and 20/55T available, not sure what ive got on mine yet.

Your right, myfords seem to go for a bit in NZ, i saw one go for more than I paid that looked much worse condition and had a broken back gear also.

I was able to go and look at the one i bought prior to purchase which was an advantage as I could get a better idea on the condition. Most myfords of this age are needing some attention anyway, and if i go and buy a restored one, i still have to trust that whoever rebuilt it did a good job and pay a premium price.

Im not far from you, im in Tauranga.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by Shaun Belcher on 10/09/2019 12:10:49:

Ive got to count the teeth on my broken one.

If there is only one tooth broken, it needs no more than 3 or 4 grub screws, a drill and tap(s), some loctite (or solder) and a little time spent with a suitable file. They are easily repaired.

That would be just one way to replace a broken tooth.

[Shaun BelcherParticipant @shaunbelcher81617]

Posted by not done it yet on 10/09/2019 12:46:01:

Posted by Shaun Belcher on 10/09/2019 12:10:49:

Ive got to count the teeth on my broken one.

If there is only one tooth broken, it needs no more than 3 or 4 grub screws, a drill and tap(s), some loctite (or solder) and a little time spent with a suitable file. They are easily repaired.

That would be just one way to replace a broken tooth.

Ive just discovered its got another broken tooth on the other side after turning it around.

Pretty sure its 2 teeth broken.

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

Ok, just been out to check what my one has. The spindle has a 65 tooth bull wheel, that's the one with the little dog to engage and disengage it. The other one on the spindle has 30 teeth. The ones on the back gear shaft seem to be the 21 and 56 combination, assuming I counted correctly which is a bit harder with that one. It is a bit oily under there! My ML7 is early fifties vintage.

Is it the one on the spindle that is broken, or the back one? Mine has one tooth missing on the spindle one. I have the spare but have not yet got around to putting it in, and it actually works fine for the odd time I have needed back gear. NDIY is right that you can do a fix in a number of ways that will be quite satisfactory, they are not all that heavily loaded.

The usual cause of broken teeth on these gears is using the back gear to stop the spindle rotating so you can get a stuck chuck off. This is not what you should do!

The 65 tooth gear means that you cannot use a simple detent on the bullgear to do simple dividing, unless all you ever need is either 13 or 5 divisions.

John

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by Shaun Belcher on 11/09/2019 02:54:58:

Posted by not done it yet on 10/09/2019 12:46:01:

Posted by Shaun Belcher on 10/09/2019 12:10:49:

Ive got to count the teeth on my broken one.

If there is only one tooth broken, it needs no more than 3 or 4 grub screws, a drill and tap(s), some loctite (or solder) and a little time spent with a suitable file. They are easily repaired.

That would be just one way to replace a broken tooth.

Ive just discovered its got another broken tooth on the other side after turning it around.

Pretty sure its 2 teeth broken.

When I said ‘one tooth’ I should, I suppose, have been far more specific for you and keyed in ‘single’ to mean teeth missing in groups of one. So no real problem at all. When the first single tooth is repaired, there will be only one single to replace!

Multiple missing teeth are likely best repaired by infill with braze or weld followed by recutting the tooth profile for those teeth. Alternatives are machining away several teeth, along with some metal below, and replacing with a fitted-in piece of metal – again loctited, soldered, brazed or mechanically secured). These are standard easy repairs but preferably using milling facilities, but could be carried out by a proficient manual tool user.

I can easily cut new gears, but I would not be replacing a whole gear with more than 100 teeth (actually far fewer) even if several teeth were damaged. Repairs are so simple to effect.

[Shaun BelcherParticipant @shaunbelcher81617]

Posted by John Olsen on 11/09/2019 06:17:59:

Ok, just been out to check what my one has. The spindle has a 65 tooth bull wheel, that's the one with the little dog to engage and disengage it. The other one on the spindle has 30 teeth. The ones on the back gear shaft seem to be the 21 and 56 combination, assuming I counted correctly which is a bit harder with that one. It is a bit oily under there! My ML7 is early fifties vintage.

Is it the one on the spindle that is broken, or the back one? Mine has one tooth missing on the spindle one. I have the spare but have not yet got around to putting it in, and it actually works fine for the odd time I have needed back gear. NDIY is right that you can do a fix in a number of ways that will be quite satisfactory, they are not all that heavily loaded.

The usual cause of broken teeth on these gears is using the back gear to stop the spindle rotating so you can get a stuck chuck off. This is not what you should do!

The 65 tooth gear means that you cannot use a simple detent on the bullgear to do simple dividing, unless all you ever need is either 13 or 5 divisions.

John

Its my backgear thats missing teeth, the one on the spindle is OK.

yes i hear the same thing about teeth being broken when people try and remove the chuck.

[Shaun BelcherParticipant @shaunbelcher81617]

counted its teeth last night, and its a 21/56T backgear

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Firstly Welcome!

Have not read through all the foregoing, so my comments may already have been covered.

The gears with missing teeth suggest that the machine has been misused (abused was my original word)

Lets hope that it is not to badly worn or damaged to be not worth restoring.

Don't worry about the Japanese chuck. Chucks to fit the 1 1/8 x 12 tpi thread are available from a variety of countries, certainly India and China. the important thing is not where it came from, but how well it and accurately it functions. Assuming that it is a 3 jaw if it holds work concentric within 0.005" it should not be too bad, unless it has been strained and the jaws are belmouthed. If this is the case, the solution is either to regrind, in situ, or to buy a chuck in better condition.

Replacement gears should be available from the RDG Tools who now own the Myford trade mark and supply spares. Home and Workshop Machinery of 144 Maidstone Road, Foots Cray, Sidcup, Kent, DA14 5HS U K may well have second hand gears, as well as other suppliers.

Don't waste money on buying a Myford oil gun. Scatter gun would be a better description; it oiled just about everything, including me, except the parts that I wanted oiled.

Buying a Reilang will be money well spent. They are good, and put the oil where you want it.

For oilers, take a look at the Arc EuroTrade website, for Oil Cups, (although these are Metric thread, not Imperial so may need to have adaptors made. Chicken and egg!) and Drip Feed Oilers which are 1/8 BSP.

There will be other sources to be found on the web, I am sure.

HTH

Howard

[Shaun BelcherParticipant @shaunbelcher81617]

Posted by Howard Lewis on 13/09/2019 22:21:02:

Firstly Welcome!

Have not read through all the foregoing, so my comments may already have been covered.

The gears with missing teeth suggest that the machine has been misused (abused was my original word)

Lets hope that it is not to badly worn or damaged to be not worth restoring.

Don't worry about the Japanese chuck. Chucks to fit the 1 1/8 x 12 tpi thread are available from a variety of countries, certainly India and China. the important thing is not where it came from, but how well it and accurately it functions. Assuming that it is a 3 jaw if it holds work concentric within 0.005" it should not be too bad, unless it has been strained and the jaws are belmouthed. If this is the case, the solution is either to regrind, in situ, or to buy a chuck in better condition.

Replacement gears should be available from the RDG Tools who now own the Myford trade mark and supply spares. Home and Workshop Machinery of 144 Maidstone Road, Foots Cray, Sidcup, Kent, DA14 5HS U K may well have second hand gears, as well as other suppliers.

Don't waste money on buying a Myford oil gun. Scatter gun would be a better description; it oiled just about everything, including me, except the parts that I wanted oiled.

Buying a Reilang will be money well spent. They are good, and put the oil where you want it.

For oilers, take a look at the Arc EuroTrade website, for Oil Cups, (although these are Metric thread, not Imperial so may need to have adaptors made. Chicken and egg!) and Drip Feed Oilers which are 1/8 BSP.

There will be other sources to be found on the web, I am sure.

HTH

Howard

Hi howard

Im not too worried about the chuck, although its been suggested to me it might be too heavy for it and cause excessive wear on the spindle bearings.

From what I gather, the broken teeth are common to see on these as it appears many people try locking the chuck with the backgear engaged in order to remove it.

Not too worried about the backgear right now. Plenty of used ones on ebay from myford stuff.

Regarding oilers, the ones RDG and Myford sell look identical to the ones from china on ebay at a fraction of the price. Am considering getting a pair for the time being.

Is this the right Reilang oil can? Its all i can find but does not look like it has the right fitting for the oil nipples. https://www.ebay.com/c/524999975

Some of the oil nipples are damaged and will replace them, are grease nipples usable? It looks like thats all they are that myford sell.

As far as oil guns go, this seems to be more popular than myfords (swiss) one they sell, its made in germany.

Any ideas how good this type is? https://www.lathespares.co.uk/myford-oil-lubrication/oil-gun-myford-lathe-1

Other than that, im going to hopefully test everything out next week. My main concern is how worn the bed is and if any wear is observed on the spindle.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Hi Shaun,

Yes it looks like the Reilang that I have. I removed the nipple at the end,mounted it on a mandrel (The thread is M5 or M6 ) and turned it to a slower taper, so that the slightly smaller nose would fit into small ball oilers more easily.

I can only recommend it. It very rarely leaks oil, but can generate enough pressure to force oil through the ball oilers on the saddle of my lathe until it appears under the wipers on the bed.

Howard

[Don CoxParticipant @doncox80133]

Shaun

A couple of years back I was lucky enough to inherit a couple of Valvespout oilers. These have small, on/off controllable, nozzles which will fit into the original Myford "flush ball" type oilers ball apertures and those in he grease nipple types too. The balls are then pushed off of their seats to allow oil in, I have one with H32 and the other with k68 grade oil in, they both easily deliver controlled amounts into all of the oilers on my two Myford 7s and an ML8 . Have a look at one on: http://www.longs.co.uk/acatalog/Longs_Shopping_Site_Oilers_83htm

Don

[Shaun BelcherParticipant @shaunbelcher81617]

Posted by Howard Lewis on 14/09/2019 11:13:31:

Hi Shaun,

Yes it looks like the Reilang that I have. I removed the nipple at the end,mounted it on a mandrel (The thread is M5 or M6 ) and turned it to a slower taper, so that the slightly smaller nose would fit into small ball oilers more easily.

I can only recommend it. It very rarely leaks oil, but can generate enough pressure to force oil through the ball oilers on the saddle of my lathe until it appears under the wipers on the bed.

Howard

OK, thats helpful to know, I think I will grab one and give it a shot.

I guess i need two oil cans, since these lathes require 2 different grades of oil?

[Shaun BelcherParticipant @shaunbelcher81617]

Posted by Don Cox on 14/09/2019 14:27:12:

Shaun

A couple of years back I was lucky enough to inherit a couple of Valvespout oilers. These have small, on/off controllable, nozzles which will fit into the original Myford "flush ball" type oilers ball apertures and those in he grease nipple types too. The balls are then pushed off of their seats to allow oil in, I have one with H32 and the other with k68 grade oil in, they both easily deliver controlled amounts into all of the oilers on my two Myford 7s and an ML8 . Have a look at one on: http://www.longs.co.uk/acatalog/Longs_Shopping_Site_Oilers_83htm

Don

Thanks, Ill take a look at those.

As far as i can tell with my lathe, all the nipples require H32 grade, and K68 is just applied directly to the leadscrews and gears? Is that correct?

[Thor 🇳🇴Participant @thor]

Posted by Shaun Belcher on 14/09/2019 23:44:22:

As far as i can tell with my lathe, all the nipples require H32 grade, and K68 is just applied directly to the leadscrews and gears? Is that correct?

Yes, and K68 also on the slideways, as said here.

Thor

Edited By Thor on 15/09/2019 05:58:53

[JohnFParticipant @johnf59703]

Shaun, for an oil gun have a look here **LINK** I have two of these and they work very well, not 100% leakproof but very close, i also have the Myford "leakproof" model and mine leaks far worse then the cheapo listed here !

Regarding the bed re-grind by an engine re-builder a pal of mind did that for the surface then sorted the sides of the ways by hand with a bit out of the box thinking and it worked very well.

See your messages Cheers John

Good luck with the rebuild

[Shaun BelcherParticipant @shaunbelcher81617]

Posted by Thor on 15/09/2019 05:43:21:

Posted by Shaun Belcher on 14/09/2019 23:44:22:

As far as i can tell with my lathe, all the nipples require H32 grade, and K68 is just applied directly to the leadscrews and gears? Is that correct?

Yes, and K68 also on the slideways, as said here.

Thor

Edited By Thor on 15/09/2019 05:58:53

Thanks, thats what I thought. Looks straightforward enough.

[Shaun BelcherParticipant @shaunbelcher81617]

Posted by JohnF on 15/09/2019 11:33:58:

Shaun, for an oil gun have a look here **LINK** I have two of these and they work very well, not 100% leakproof but very close, i also have the Myford "leakproof" model and mine leaks far worse then the cheapo listed here !

Regarding the bed re-grind by an engine re-builder a pal of mind did that for the surface then sorted the sides of the ways by hand with a bit out of the box thinking and it worked very well.

See your messages Cheers John

Good luck with the rebuild

Thanks for that info.

Ill take a look at that gun. Is the nozzle long enough to reach the nipple inside the gearbox?

Will check your message.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

IF it is not, one can always extend the part by a simple threading or soldering operation?

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