Heart Pacemaker around Machine Tools

[Gone AwayParticipant @goneaway]

I hope this isn’t considered too off topic.

 

Is there anyone here who has first hand practical experience with a heart pacemaker in the home workshop? Specifically an ICD (implantable cardioverter defibrillator) device which is more sensitive than the basic pacemaker.

 

Having just been fitted with one, I’m facing warnings about certain everyday devices including  machine tools. The most specific guide I can turn up requires a 2 ft distance from “Bench-Mounted/Free-Standing Tools for motors 400 HP or less.

 

Presumably the 2ft distance is from the motor/electronics area and the “400 HP or less” suggests that this is mostly based on industrial equipment. In that case, with the size of industrial machines, 2 ft separation is perhaps not difficult to manage but for home shop equipment 2 ft is more problematic (particularly for my Asian 7x lathe and also the Myford ML7 that I’m currently rebuilding). My mini-mill is marginal. On the other hand, the motors on these machine are greatly less than 400 HP of course.

 

The potential consequences are such that it’s not something where I want to “suck it and see”. On the other hand I really don’t want to have to give up my workshop. Since there are likely to be others here of advancing years who may have already met this problem, I’m hoping I can get some advice.

 

 

[Gone AwayParticipant @goneaway]

[ColHParticipant @colh]

Hi Sid

 

I have a normal on demand pacemaker and have done some research as I had similar concerns and aslo work around high powered broadcast transmitters.

 

The pacemaker manufacturers give blanket warnings as they they have to cover themselves from litigation.

 

I had consulted an RF expert ( at my employers expense) to certify that I can continue to work around transmitters and as long as I steer clear of high RF fields I OK.  Can’t go near radiating high power AM-MF masts but normal transmitters are OK . The consultant did warn me about welders but other reading I have done says small welders with the leads suitably located away from the body should be OK ie don;t droop the cables over your shoulder.  I have a small MIG but have not used it since getting my pacemaker.

 

The problem for the workshop is the electromagnetic fields from motors, especially at start up.  Our workshops have small motors with relatively small currents so I don’t think they should be a problem. I still use my workshop but I would not lean my shoulder against a motor.  Magnets near the pacemaker are also a no no.  I had one of my annual pacemaker checks at the local hospital where they used a big magnet held over the pacemaker to force to pacemaker to go to the maximum pacing rate.  I did not feel anything.

 

regards

 

Col Harman

 

[russellParticipant @russell]

a few months ago, rec.crafts.metalworking had a longish discussion when one of its regular members needed a pacemaker and was concerned particularly about welding.

 

the guy (don foreman?) appeared to do a lot of reseach.

see here for the thread.

[Bryan RozierParticipant @bryanrozier80712]

I would think that farctional horse power steel bodied motors would be fine as they will contain most of the magentic field anyway.

 

This web site suggests using handheld drills are okay and yet they tend not to have any shielding :-

 

http://www.wiganleigh.nhs.uk/Internet/Specialties/Cardiology/pacemaker_faq.asp

 

I can’t see a 500W plastic drill being any worse than a 750W (1HP) Steel bodied lathe motor with a big chunk of steel (lathe) between you and it….

 

If it were me (and my life depended on it)  I think I’d see if I could find a cheapish magnetic field meter (Gauss Meter) and test what is emitted by the various machine tools.

 

They seem to range from £30 – £1000

 

£30

 

http://www.tomsgadgets.com/products/details.aspx?pc=GM1&l=22

 

£200

 

http://www.tomsgadgets.com/products/details.aspx?pc=FW418&l=22

 

£1000

 

http://www.coleparmer.co.uk/catalog/product_view.asp?sku=2682222

 

If you have a University nearby maybe you could persuade them to do a EM survey of your home and workshop…

 

 

Regards

Bryan

[Gone AwayParticipant @goneaway]

Hi Col,

 

Yes, the manufacturers cover themselves with very generalised (and conservative) warnings don’t they? Which is the whole problem.

 

One of the other problems with this is that the ICD’s are much more sensitive than the regular pacemaker from what I can make out and they are sensitive to quite small rf fields as well as magnetic. In fact they communicate with mine – do all the readouts and programming – by wi-fi .

 

I was just at the clinic this morning . First they put this gadget like a hockey puck on your chest. It’s connected by a cable to the computer. After a while they remove that and do everything by wi-fi. I asked about the two methods and it turns out that all the real stuff is done by wi-fi. The hockey puck is just a local (low power rf?) pickup that they initially use to set up the computer so that it is sure that it’s talking to your device (not one in the next room).

 

There are a number of warnings about rf/magnetic devices such as cell-phones (use in your right hand); ipod earpods (don’t get them closer than your ears – and definitely not in your shirt pocket).

 

Another thing that my research seems to suggest is that the devices actually contain a reed switch which senses an excessive magnetic field and sets the device to a safe mode. I think the problem though is deciding what is a “safe mode”.

 

It’s encouraging that at least someone with a pacemaker is still using his shop. I’ve already used my drill and power hacksaw but it’s easy to stay stay well away from the motors on those. The lathes still worry me though.

 

The manufacturer of the device has a branch close to me in Canada (couple of miles) but I don’t know whether it’s just a sales outlet or if they have a technical capability. If they do I was wondering whether I could persuade them to drop by and take some readings.

 

[Gone AwayParticipant @goneaway]

Hi Russell,

 

Thanks for the tip on rec.crafts.metalworking – I’ll check it out.

 

(it’s a long time since I visited that group actually. I used to but the signal/noise ratio was so abysmal that I gave up).

[Gone AwayParticipant @goneaway]

Hi Bryan,

 

Yes, I too would think that the small motors shouldn’t be much of a problem. Problem is, when it comes to it, I’m a bit loath to walk up to one and see whether the ICD starts to de-fibrillate me

My “user manual” too says that hand power tools are “minimal risk” meaning at least 6-inches distance from the ICD and I’ve actually used an 18V Li-ion portable drill.

As far as measuring the magnetic field goes, if it came up with zero, that would obviously be fine. However if it detected anything I wouldn’t know the allowable limit. Also, as I explained above, it’s sensitive to rf fields and while I don’t suppose that the tools are putting out any rf by design who knows what rf emissions Chinese electronics might put out.

[ColHParticipant @colh]

Hi SId

 

This link is for an article where they tested about a dozen patients with implants around big motors and welders.  No adverse affects.

 

Click for link

 

regards

 

Col

[Graham BuxtonParticipant @grahambuxton49131]

Sid, you have only had a pacemaker fitted, if it fails to function, it will not kill you, you will be as you were before , at risk, but alive. Enjoy your life, do what you want, suck it and see, there is no problem.( Mrs. Sid don’t sue me if he pops off.)

[Gone AwayParticipant @goneaway]

Hi Col,

 

That looks really interesting. I’ve downloaded the pdf and shall wade through it soon, thanks.

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