First lathe recommendation.

[James NewberryParticipant @jamesnewberry]

[James NewberryParticipant @jamesnewberry]

Hi all,

I have been after a lathe for a little while now and, after giving it quite a bit of though, I have come to the conclusion that I would prefer to buy a brand new machine rather than second hand so I will be heading to the Model Engineering Exhibition at Sandown this weekend. With the money I made this afternoon selling my wedding ring – no I'm not kidding! – I am hoping to take the plunge there and then.

So – I think I have narrowed the search down to three or four machines and I'd like people's input please. I reckon my first lathe should be something relatively small and simple – I am planning on using it to make smallish steam engines, initially at least, and I think something with too many bells and whistles will only confuse me – knowing me I'll try to run before I can walk and only end up making a mess of everything.

The contenders are – Clarke CL250 (I like the fact that this one can have a milling attachment added at a later date), Warco Super Mini, Sieg SC2. All three are in the order of £500 or so. Also in the running is the Clarke 500 – twice the price but comes with a mill/drill (although see earlier comment about not getting something with too many features – just contradicted myself there!)

So – thoughts please everyone?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I don't think you will find any of those lathes for sale or to view at sandown going by the short list of traders

[James NewberryParticipant @jamesnewberry]

Ah. Must admit, I hadn't considered that possibility!

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

My own recommendation would be a Sieg super C3 if your funds can stretch to it…

it is a far superior machine than the opposition mentioned…

the Clarke CL500 is a little er can we say 'agricultural '…..mill wise, again the Sieg SuperX2 fits in nicely with the lathe when funds permit….

I'm sure there'll be other recommendations, but this is mine…..

(I have the above, plus a Chester 9×20, a Chester Eagle 30 mill and a Chester Conquest mill….can't have enough toys… )

[Michael Cox 1Participant @michaelcox1]

Also consider the Amadeal CJ18, see http://www.amadeal.co.uk.

This machine comes with a 100 mm spindle flange and chuck whereas most competitos only have an 80 mm spindle and chuck. The machine is virtually the same design as the Sieg C3 but it is made by Real Bull. Some say that the Real Bull build quality is better than that of the Sieg machines.

All the lathes that you mention can be fitted with milling attachments. However these are only suited to light milling and a carried lock and a leadscrew handwheel are needed to use the attachment efficiently. Also read

**LINK**

Mike

[michael coleParticipant @michaelcole91146]

I would forget about a mill attached to a small lathe, you will hate it.

Mike

[James NewberryParticipant @jamesnewberry]

Thanks for the tip John. The Super C3 isn't a million miles out of budget so is now officially on the contenders' list! Would you mind me asking what it is that makes it superior? What I'm thinking is whether many of the features that make it superior are features that I wouldn't necessarily need anyway – for instance, I notice that it has a longer bed but I'm not sure I need a bed that long anyway so I wouldn't necessarily want to pay extra for something I don't need. Do any other features fall into a similar category?

Many thanks,

Jim

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

The Sieg offering has a brushless motor as opposed to the Amadeal m/c for starters…….

AFAIK, the Amadeal job also has the gearbox……

[RobboParticipant @robbo]

Warco (and Chester) will be at Ally Pally with machinery.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

And Axminster with their Sieg machines

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

Again, AFAIK, the Warco and Chester machines have brushed motors and use a gearbox for the Lo/Hi speeds.

Now unless they have changed the gears from plastic to metal, these will always be a consideration for these machines…( the plastic gears afford some protection against doing damage,the metal gears maybe noisier)

Personally, I don't like the cam lock arrangement on the Amadeal m/c, prefer the Sieg method….

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Depending on your location and means of travel you might be able to get to the Warco business showroom to have a look at their machines. Otherwise you should definately wait until the Ally Pally show to get some proper hands on appreciation.

While at both shows take the time to talk to club stands of all types to get their views bearing in mind each person you talk to will have a different bias and experience.it is a quick way to get a lot of one to one discussion time.

[JohnFParticipant @johnf59703]

Hi Jim, Looking at the list of exhibitors for Sandown I think i would wait until the London exhibition **LINK**

There seems to be a much better choice in the January show but I have not been to Sandown because its to difficult to get to from the North West .

Regarding a lathe well remember what will hold a lot will hold a little — generally speaking, I would go a little bigger than those mentioned if your budget and workshop will allow and I would without doubt make sure it has a screw cutting [norton] gear box rather than change wheels. For small parts what collet system do you want to use or what do they supply. Are you going metric or imperial? Last but not least what is the back up from the supplier.

My five bits!

John.

[James NewberryParticipant @jamesnewberry]

Thanks everyone, there is some really useful stuff here and I'll bear it all in mind. The Sandown show is quite an easy proposition for me as it is handy for work (Heathrow) so I'll go along anyway but try to curb my natural tendency to "buy it 'cos it's there" unless I see the right thing. Ally Pally doesn't fit in very well with work dates but if nothing is forthcoming at Sandown I can probably squeeze it in.

Anyway, thanks again for the input, much appreciated.

Jim

[Rik ShawParticipant @rikshaw]

>>

Johns comment re: screw cutting gearbox is right on the ball. I have a WARCO WM 250 V-F and the messy and confusing palaver of changing the gear positions with the rubber gloves, strips of paper and complex thread cutting charts is something to avoid if at all possible – never mind the noise!>>

Think of it like this: If you had a car that was like my lathe how would you feel if every time you had to change gear you would have to pull into a lay-by, stop the engine, dismantle the gearbox, reset the gear positions possibly using the spare gears you have to keep in the boot, replace the gearbox cover, clean yourself up and drive away? >>

Primitive? ……..you bet!>>

Rik>>

>>

[RobboParticipant @robbo]

Jim,

Re your original post

" With the money I made this afternoon selling my wedding ring – no I'm not kidding! – I am hoping to take the plunge there and then."

just what kind of wedding ring?

Phil

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

I have the same machine as Rik & find it suits my needs most admirably so far, I haven't had the palaver about screw cutting as Rik as most of the few threads I've needed were handled by the tailstock die holder & headstock handle method so I can't comment on the changing gear scenario, until I need to create some other thread than what is set up in original arrangement I'll stick with the above, but we made our choice for our needs at the time. I can see the benefits of a screw cutting gearbox & should I ever get another machine then I would look at it having the gearbox set up, but for what I do at the moment….

George

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

Guys,

please don't lose sight of the fact that the OP has a limited budget…..

[James NewberryParticipant @jamesnewberry]

Phil,

i should perhaps have mentioned that it was my ring from my first marriage and it had been sitting gathering dust at the back of a drawer for the last five years! I didn't get enough for it to pay for the lathe entirely but it's a good start! It was a 6mm platinum ring.

Jim

[GaryMParticipant @garym]

Hi Jim,

I bought my first lathe two years ago, a Sieg SC2 from Axminster. I didn't know of all the model engineering suppliers at the time.

Thoughts on ownership since then:

I now wish it was bigger (no surprise there), but what I've learnt in the last two years means I have a much better idea of what I would be looking for in an upgrade.

The nut that locks the tailstock to the bed is a pain in the bum. Try to get one with a lever lock. (i.e. Super C3 from Arc or Super Mini Lathe from Warco).

If you decide to fit a thread dial indicator to the saddle for screwcutting you have to remove the leadscrew cover permanently on the Axminster or Arc machines (didn't stop me). Warco has a thread dial indicator fitted.

Turning anything bigger than 3" diameter (e.g. small engine flywheel) gets a bit challenging.

I bought a vertical slide but it is IMHO a waste of money. When I came to machine the bedplate for the Stuart S50 I decided it wasn't worth the hassle of trying to do it on the vertical slide and bought a separate milling machine (bug had well and truly bitten by then). The link provided by Michael Cox 1 above explains why.

HTH

Gary

[Derek DroverParticipant @derekdrover32802]

I started off with a mini-lathe (a Clarke – it was actually pretty good), but found I needed something bigger. At the time I was working with 3.5" loco's, but having bought a Chester 920, its big enough for 5" as well. Its also capable of screwcutting (which the mini lathe was not!!).. it does have a gearbox arrangement, even though you still have gears to swap around, but its something I have learned to live with, based on a budget.

I know its a Chinese machine, but for a price, its not a bad machine, and there's lots of advice on how to improve them and tailor them to personal preferences. They've been knocking these out since the 80's.

Del.

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

When I read posts like the above, I always think of Kozo Hiraoka who had a workshop 8 feet by 8 feet in the corner of his living room, and he produced world-class results, both in terms of modelling, but also in researching, design, and writing.

Sorting through the "requirements" from the "wishes" is always difficult, because "wishes" become "requirements". Sailors call this "two-foot-itis" – having a boat 2 feet longer would solve all of the problems of their world, until they realize it's too big to manage!

For me, if I had a choice, I'd send away my large lathe, and keep an Emco Compact-8, with change wheels, and it's vertical head bolted to the back of the bed. I know, not "ideal" but suitable.

Just my two cents – Another JohnS.

[Steve WithnellParticipant @stevewithnell34426]

Sieg SC3 would be my vote and from ArcEurotrade not Axminster. Simply because I reckon Arc are second to none where Sieg kit is concerned. I would go for the SC3 rather than the SC2 because it sounds like the biggest you can afford, and you will have to live with it for a long time, so it will give you some "head room" as you get into the hobby.

Just a few thoughts from a hobbyist. Not a time served machinist!

Steve

[James NewberryParticipant @jamesnewberry]

Again, thanks for the input everyone. The Sieg certainly seems to be a popular choice. My concern is that, having read a couple of reviews, it sounds like a strip down and rebuild is – if not inevitable – then certainly highly likely if I want it to perform as advertised. Considering that I'm a newbie to all this, the idea of having to strip down and rebuild my first lathe before I can use it properly seems somewhat daunting. The Warco lathes on the other hand apparently come all set up and ready to go. If the advertising is to be believed then it is simply a case of wiping off the protective grease layer and plugging it in, yet the comments above seem less complimentary about Warco. I live near Leamington Spa and so I reckon the Arceuro showroom in Leicester is about an hour north of me while the Warco showroom is a similar distance to the south so if I may well take a trip to each and have a look before committing myself one way or the other.

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