Explanation of job ‘Engineers Driller’

[John ShepherdParticipant @johnshepherd38883]

[John ShepherdParticipant @johnshepherd38883]

My Grandfather is described as an ‘Engineers Driller’ in the census returns (in a loom makers in Bradford).

What I am trying to find out is if it was a specialist trade or if it was a labourer to an engineer.

I have tried the usual web searches but most returns are for dilling oil wells and the sites listing old trades don’t recognise it.

If anyone has an explanation (other than he drills holes*) I would be greatful.

* I tried to add a smiley here but each time I tried IE shut the page down – another feature of this site?

John

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Perhaps in those days there was a demarcation between trades?

I can see a fitter wanting a hole drilled and then a ‘Driller’ comes forward to carry out the task as such.

Conjecture i know but if there is a better answer I would like to see it.

 

Clive

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Probably one of those questions that will never get a correct answer because of being lost in time.

 

However a old fried of mine worked as a driller at Ruston Bucyrus at Lincoln until it’s closure a few years ago. His job was to drill holes in the various plates where marked by others.

 

A lot of holes had been drilling in the machine shops but depending on what was fitted to the machine extra holes were required in the erection shop. I well remember him telling me of having to drill up to 3″ holes by hand using big windy drills.

 

Heavy boots and a wide stance were the order of the day

John S.

[NobbyParticipant @nobby]

Hi all

A company I worked at in the early sixtes making aircraft parts There was a drilling section in the machine shop and they had two rows of piller drills about 35 and the operators drilled components useing the jigs we made in the cage(toolroom) some jigs had several operations so the driller? moved from one drill to the next one etc.

Regards Nobby

[Steve GarnettParticipant @stevegarnett62550]

Having a spare five minutes, I did a bit of poking around. Generally the usage of the term has an apostrophe in it, and that might be significant – it’s ‘Engineer’s Driller’. I’ve also found a cross-reference to this being at least the equivalent of a skilled trade. What the apostrophe implies is that this is somebody whose work is being directed by an engineer, rather than somebody just working in an engineering shop. Which agrees 100% with what JS says.

 

But like everybody else, I can’t find a definitive reference to the requirements of the job at all.

[AndyBParticipant @andyb47186]

It is most likely that it was a particular job in his place of work, not a nationally recognised position. When we fill in our census we have to write our job titles; I didn’t feel comfortable writing ‘doing whatever is necessary’ so I put my job title rather than my occupation.

 

I just ran through the 1901 census looking at job titles under the listing of my great grandfather’s name;

 

Engine cleaner

Gas stow fitter

Breeze turner (?)

Carman carriers

Carman

Billiard marker (did he put the balls back on the spots?)

Malemaker (?)

Yarman on farm

Blacks (mith?)

Breeze burner ( is one of these a misprint or misspelling?)

 

I think that it confirms my idea.

 

Andy

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

My great,great Grandfather was a ‘Brickburner’. I think a lot of trades listed in the Census are ancillary trades to main trades.

A lot of the processes used in the old days were very long winded and needed lots of labour in many different places.

 

Clive

[Steve GarnettParticipant @stevegarnett62550]

Posted by Andy Belcher on 08/05/2011 09:26:32:

It is most likely that it was a particular job in his place of work, not a nationally recognised position.

That would be fine as an explanation, if it wasn’t for the fact that you can find loads of census entries from all over the country using the same term – ‘Engineer’s Driller’. I’d say that despite the fact that we don’t appear to have chapter and verse about it, this was a job title which was widely used – at least on census forms.

Edited By Steve Garnett on 08/05/2011 10:34:20

[Sam StonesParticipant @samstones42903]

Hi John,

As someone interested in family history, I sent an email to my local UK History Centre. Its objective was to determine more closely, the type of work an Agricultural Engineer would be doing in the 1900’s. This, according to a couple of B.M.D. records, appeared as the occupation of my grandfather 1875-1921

Their reply included “. . . the term Agricultural Engineer appears to have been used in a number of capacities, mainly at that period applied to specialist blacksmiths who concentrated primarily on farm-related equipment (such as production, maintenance and repair of plough blades for example.)”

Further digging revealed that in 1891 (British Census) at the age of 15, he was a blacksmith. Ten years later (1901 Census) age 25, he was shown as an Agricultural Engineer. This demonstrates the vagueness which can creep in over time, and can also result from the enumerator’s interpretation.

I would therefore suggest putting your question to the Bradford Historical and Antiquarian Society, including the range of dates when your grandfather appears as an Engineers (or Engineer’s) Driller.

 

http://www.bradfordhistorical.org.uk

There’s also a great site called 1901 England and Wales Census Decoder. It doesn’t often indicate occupations, but can provide some useful leads.

I only possess CD’s for the Lancashire Censuses (1841-1901), so am unable to help with any other county.

 

Good hunting,

 

Sam

Edited By Sam Stones on 09/05/2011 00:56:27

Edited By Sam Stones on 09/05/2011 00:57:01

 

Smileys (or ghosts) creeping in.

Edited By Sam Stones on 09/05/2011 00:58:58

[Bill DawesParticipant @billdawes]

The company i did my apprenticeship with had a drilling section in the machine shop.

The most important of these machines were radial arm drilling machines. Like any machining operation it took a degree of skill setting up the work and positioning the drill.

This type of drill could of course move through circular, radial and vertical modes.

Bill D.

[NobbyParticipant @nobby]

Hi Guys & Bill

I know its old hat . We had an archdale radial drill . It was great I used to mark out the job

And picked up the lines with a sticky pin . I wore my Drillers hat !!!

Nobby

 

[Steve GarnettParticipant @stevegarnett62550]

One thing I meant to add earlier was that I also found at least one reference to Engineer’s Driller as a job description in Australia…

[John ShepherdParticipant @johnshepherd38883]

Thanks to all that replied but as there is no definitive answer I will have to be satisfied that I had at least one ancestor with an engineering background.

 

My Grandfather died when I was about 10yrs old and what I would give now to have heard his tales of working in a machine shop in the early 1900s.

 

Regards

[jomacParticipant @jomac]

I threw the Australian newspaper out two weeks ago, that in an article about the 1930s, there was an advert for a Driller in a machine shop, Sorry but I cant find what newspaper it was in, So it was a job description, used not too long ago.

John Holloway

[jomacParticipant @jomac]

Clive. My grandfathers job description in the 1905 census, was “labourer” even though he was a specialist layer of bricks for the furnaces, used in the steel mills, in the west midlands, and as such he was payed at the lower rate. seems like nothing changed with managerial decisions,

John H.

[John Terry 1Participant @johnterry1]

Hi,
I am also very interested in this subject, but the
reference is very limited.
You can share
documents as well as experience?
Thanks!

[Geoff SheppardParticipant @geoffsheppard46476]

Being interested in Industrial Archaeology, I find these old engineering job descriptions fascinating. In the mid-1800s, my great-grandfather and one of his sons were working in the Pontypool area as “forgemen”. Around 1860 they moved to Bristol with the occupation “charcoal iron refiners”, charcoal iron being, of course, wrought iron. I often wonder what was the stimulus that made them “up sticks”. Were there problems in Pontypool or were there new opportunities in Bristol?

 

They brought with them an infant son (my grandfather) who, at a very tender age, was listed as an “iron bucket maker”. He went on to become a skilled sheet metal worker, established his own Company in the United States making Japan ware (another Pontypool speciality), returned and started another company making sheet metal illuminated signs – another innovation.

 

All much more interesting than writing code for a CNC machine!

 

p.s. Grandfather taught me how to solder a patch on a saucepan almost before I could read. It was wartime.

 

Geoff

[Ian AbbottParticipant @ianabbott31222]

When I started my apprenticeship, we had to work with all the different sections in the shop to learn the processes. There were turners, shapers, grinders and drillers as well as blacksmiths, tinsmiths etc. The name of the position was the machine he worked on.

 

In our factory, the ancillary trades were considered, if I remember correctly to be “semi skilled” workers.

 

Ian

[DMBParticipant @dmb]

Try enquiring at Science Museum and any Industry museums.

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

I proud to say one of my grandfathers was a coppersmith in the RAF; my nan used to have amodel spitfire he made as a lost wax casting from an old penny. Other grandfather was equally talented, worked as a radio operator in the Navy and eventually ended up teaching radar for the RAF, and he navy discharge mentions some ‘improvements to sonar’ that could not be detailed for national security reasons!

 

“what I would give now to have heard his tales of working in a machine shop in the early 1900s.”

I know a wonderful old lady whose grandfather ran one of the legendary UK engineering firms, and whose father ran it … into the ground (her analysis). I asked her for tales of the factory, and she just said she her father took her there as a child and it was a terrible, noisy place!

 

Neil

 

[John ShepherdParticipant @johnshepherd38883]

Thanks for all the replies

 

My grandfather (who was the ‘Engineers Driller’) was also described as a ‘Worsted Spinner’ when he was aged 10!

Another of my ancestors was a Whitesmith & Bell Hanger.

The job of Whitesmith is well documented as a worker in white metals such as tin and pewter, also a finisher of cast items as opposed to casting or forging. Bell hanger is self explanatory but I have no idea why the two go go together. From web searches it is not an unusual combination.

 

( The large blank post of mine in this thread is an aborted attempt at pasting from Word that I could not edit – sorry.)

 

John Shepherd

[John Terry 1Participant @johnterry1]

If you want to get more materials that related to this
topic, you can visit: Railroad engineer job description

Best regards.

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