cost of building a 1″ & 2″ Minnie or similar

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

Whilst I am sitting here dreaming of the day I might start such a project I cannot help but wonder if the final cost ( financial not time) would be prohibitive

So ignoring specialist tooling such as gear cutters etc has anyone actually worked out what the cost of building a 1" & 2" traction engine( Minnie or otherwise) is, whether buying all the castings or making from scratch please

I have tried working out the cost of castings only but for some reason suppliers only list individual parts & do not say how many of each one would need. I suppose that is to hide the real cost which might put some of us off. Then of course there is all the other parts needed plus boiler testing etc.

So has anyone dared to calculate -when the wife is not looking on

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

 

"Whilst I am sitting here dreaming of the day I might start such a project I cannot help but wonder if the final cost ( financial not time) would be prohibitive"

Prohbitive depends on personal finances. Expensive..yes by any estimate..and no, I haven,t even wanted to go there since any true costing would have to allow for ability (my novice status) and the amount of likely junk in the scrap box, damaged tooling, the extra bought tooling , scrap timber and hold-downs and so forth. it's easy to imagine a novice wreaking havoc on a few sets of some castings, tool dig-ins, mismeasures etc..

If you want a traction engine then likely cheapest to buy one. I consider the 1" minnie a useless object however pretty and cute it's just a toy to brag about until one gets bored. A 2+" and one can add the fun of being pulled about to the bragging rights..

I'm having a go at mine just for the journey of seeing if I can learn to build the thing and to test my patience and fortitude – really. And to learn how to use all these expensive toys I bought. And an excuse to buy more.

Everyone will have their own reality check.For me – if I can't make a functional boiler in a couple of goes (as in copper and silver scrap) then I'll likely abandon the thing and go do something else and learn to make simpler boilers or non-steam stuff etc. Others would buy a commercial boiler and carry on. Or just buy the boier to begin with.

When it comes to the 1" minnie the few castings I've looked at work out slightly more than a lump of metal to make it from… albeit lots more work. Arguments will apply to gears… have a go at making them or buy them in? It's as much about whether you want a quicker finish or a machining excercise….

If i claw a figure out of the sky using the boiler price advertised here recemtly of £750 then with extra tooling I'm going to need I'd guess £3+K is my realistic cost. I suppose a 2" minnie would be at least 2.5 times that…??

However that cost keeps me out of the pub and the wife's hair for a few years..

Edited By JasonB on 29/03/2016 10:04:35

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Castings and some laser cut parts only, no gears, no boiler, no barstock, no fixings

1" Minnie £450approx

2" Minnie £1600 approx

Could be done with no castings but you would need more raw material, tooling, ability and time.

A more detailed engine like the 2" Fowler would cost you a lot more in castings, easily another £1K

Edited By JasonB on 29/03/2016 10:09:20

[Billy BeanParticipant @billybean67480]

Western steam certificated boiler, laser cut hornplates, flanged tender sides, machined gears and all materials and castings.

One inch £2000 and two inch £3500.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Billy is that an actual quote or rough guess?

2" Boiler £2000 +, castings as above from Blackgates £1600, Gears from Blackgates £600, Unflanged brass for Tender £100 plus all other materials, fixings, pressure gauge, water gauge, injector good for another £1K

[Billy BeanParticipant @billybean67480]

Blackgates quote without fittings and vulcanised tyres.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Strange, I get £2300 for gears, castings and some laser cut parts from Blackgates cataloge.

That leaves £1200 for boiler, tender sides and all other materials. I understand Helen is over £2000 for a 2" boiler these days.

[Billy BeanParticipant @billybean67480]

Strange it may be, but that is the price I was given by Blackgates for all items purchased in one order when I asked last year.

Sorry can't help any more than that.

I can only suggest that Sam Longley 1 contacts the supplier direct for an up to date quote which would then save any confusion.

Reeves can also supply as can Geoff Stait.

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

Posted by Billy Bean on 29/03/2016 13:08:12:

Strange it may be, but that is the price I was given by Blackgates for all items purchased in one order when I asked last year.

Sorry can't help any more than that.

I can only suggest that Sam Longley 1 contacts the supplier direct for an up to date quote which would then save any confusion.

Reeves can also supply as can Geoff Stait.

Obviously I can do that but there are lots more materials needed I am sure. What has me worried is the number of people who seem to start then stop. Even Model Engineer contributors admit to long lay offs during construction. If I found it was beyond me I might waste a tidy sum. Or if I did manage to keep going I would hate to run out of cash which would really lead to a loss of confidence. Already there is a wide variation in opinions of cost . £ 1600-00 for a 2" Minnie can only be a small part of the story

Edited By Sam Longley 1 on 29/03/2016 13:20:13

[Billy BeanParticipant @billybean67480]

Cannot disagree with your summing up, that is why I decided not to persue and bought a completed one instead that I can use and enjoy.

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Sam,

My reply was more considered than my usual rashly posted responses. It really comes down to what you want. If it's a traction engine then buying one is the neatest answer as Billy Bean decided. If it's a workshop challenge then only you can decide if you want to start a project that might push you beyond your abilities and resources or whether you might be happier with a different challenge: Theres plenty of cool engines and models out there.

Indeed there will be many abandoned projects from the classic failure to live long enough to complete it to changes in circumstances or simply giving up one hobby for another. And a partial engine may be another route to consider.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

If you look at it as 1000 plus hours work which it will be then £2 to £4 an hour is quite a cheap hobby compared with some.

"£1600-00 for a 2" Minnie can only be a small part of the story"

As we have said above that is just castings and some precut parts, add in boiler and all the other materials, fixings and fixings you are in for £4-5K.

Having built both 1" and 2" traction engines I know how the costs of all the "little" items add up. but it depends on what you want out of the project, do you enjoy the making like I do and then the engine will make a good dust collector or do you want to get out on the rally field in which case a part built project or complete engine may be the way for you.

Reeves and GS Model Engineers only do the 1" Minnie

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

"Rally field"

..that made me chuckle: vision of a large number on the boiler and popping a wheelie at the off..

So what's the speed record for a 2" on the flat…anyone got a speeding ticket?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by pgk pgk on 29/03/2016 15:14:56:

 

So what's the speed record for a 2" on the flat…anyone got a speeding ticket?

Depends how brave you are and how much slack in the steering chains.

10-12MPH is about a happy roading max on teh larger 4" engines so a bit less on a 2"

Edited By JasonB on 29/03/2016 15:25:53

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

I have to admit that it is not my main hobby. I am foremost a sailor , having been round UK single handed twice in the last 4 years, with trips to Biscay etc . This year the Channel Islands. Modelling is for the winters

I do not like wasting money & want to put a realistic cost to the project first. I actually feel quite confident that given 4-5 winters I will manage it. I certainly would not buy a part built one . That is cheating

So it looks like I must budget £4-5 K & over 4 years that is not a big expenditure. I can imagine that there will be a high start up cost then it should tail off, I assume.

There is lots of info on the 2" Minnie, ( seems the best scale) but forum talk of calculating details etc do seem a bit daunting. It also seems that the design is not set in stone so it sounds as if one can easily wander off -up a blind alley!!!. Not being able to get standard drawings being the first hurdle.

Is it one of the easier, because of the information available, or is there something a little less challenging that moves & does not need rails.?

Edited By Sam Longley 1 on 29/03/2016 17:23:28

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

As it is not based on a full size engine and the original design was somewhat simplified to suit the small 1" scale it is about the most basic engine you can get if you forget the PYRTE. It also allows you some leyway as to the finer details whether you add a bit more or just build to the basic design.

Everything is in the book or on the drawings, you just need to double the sizes from the 1" and there are designs about for the 2" boiler which is not just a simple 2x the 1" design. So no calculations needed and drawings available

I suggest you get a copy of the book, sit down and list out whats required and then get some prices in, as Billy has shown it may be possible to make a saving by getting all the castings in one batch. If you are going to buy a readymade boiler then get prices and lead in times from Western Steam and Southern Boilerworks, Blackgates may also be able to quote for the 2" boiler, I know they will do the 1".

[Billy BeanParticipant @billybean67480]

Sam – the chap that sold me mine said it was simply the Minnie imperial drawings multiplied by two which seems straight forward to me, but I am not knowledgeable enough to confirm.

If you want a two inch that you can build straight from drawings then I understand the two inch Durham and North Yorkshire is considered a better bet by the chaps I met on the rally field last year and is a bit more powerful.

In terms of size, having driven a 4 inch scale model, I intend replacing the Minnie with a 4 inch model so I can give rides, etc.

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

**LINK**

MJ Engineering are a supplier who might be worth having a chat with, for parts or finished machines.

Link to their website is above.

 

 

Edited By V8Eng on 29/03/2016 18:14:47

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

As I said earlier the 2" Fowler from MJ is a far more detailed engine and will cost in the region of £1000 more than a 2" minnie and take more work to complete, Though it builds into a nice engine, this is mine without paint so you can get a better idea of whats involved.

[Billy BeanParticipant @billybean67480]

Posted by JasonB on 29/03/2016 18:22:09:

As I said earlier the 2" Fowler from MJ is a far more detailed engine and will cost in the region of £1000 more than a 2" minnie and take more work to complete, Though it builds into a nice engine, this is mine without paint so you can get a better idea of whats involved.

Superb – thanks for sharing.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

So much depends on how long you want to spend on the project.

You don't have to buy all the parts at the start. The boiler is the biggest investment, and experience says they won't get cheaper over time. Although the copper price is nosediving, you are paying for a lot of work by a skilled craftsman, so perhaps see if you can afford the boiler, and then add bits as you can and one day it will be complete..

Neil

[brickyParticipant @bricky]

The cost of the castings is only the start ,unless you are well kitted out with machines and tooling you will find the cost is something that you dare not factor in .After comleting the 2" Gold Medal Tractor after 29 years of intermitant work I have no idea of the final cost.The engine is great now finished and it is all I can lift into the car

Frank

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