But what about the “Stars”?

[Geoffrey HYDE FYNNParticipant @geoffreyhydefynn45631]

Hi all again,

Last week I raised the old question about lube for my ML7. I got loads of useful advice but no-one actually answered the question that I was asking; i.e. the manuals and book all "star" certain lube points but then contradict their advice or so it seem to me being a novice…

I have the Publication 701 that came with the lathe in 1952 and also the Publication 720 and also Ian Bradley's excellent book. They all list various lube points amongst them: 5) Backgear and changegear over teeth; 7) Tumbler gears; 15) leadscrew; 16) Rack; and 17) Cross-slide and top-slide feedscrews The later manuals/book suggest SAE 30 but they both then say that anything with a star i.e. 5), 7), 15), 16), 17), should use Rotol MTS 1000 which is a grease. Am I missing something or…

Geoffrey.

[Geoffrey HYDE FYNNParticipant @geoffreyhydefynn45631]

[magpieParticipant @magpie]

Hi Geoffrey, I should just use some oil. You are most likley to get at least a dozen ideas from the members on here, so you will be no wiser. Cheers Derek.

[Geoffrey HYDE FYNNParticipant @geoffreyhydefynn45631]

I'm sure that was what my father did over all of the years and the machine seems in perfect condition.

I will get on and finish installing it and then USE IT (carefully…)

Thanks.

Geoffrey

[RobboParticipant @robbo]

Geoffrey,

I would use sae30 on all the points you mention, just apply it frequently. I would never use grease on the leadscrew as it attracts swarf and is a sod to clean off – you will see your manual recommends cleaning the leadscrew with paraffin and re-oiling.

The only place I would use grease is on the changewheels, and even there a good thick sticky oil is just as good – people have experimented with all sorts to quieten the changewheels for instance, but it all boils down to keep it lubricated with a product that will find it's way into the crevices, and that means oil.

Phil

I'll now duck down behind the parapet.

[LambtonParticipant @lambton]

The handbook for my S7 states " Where SAE 30 is specified any good motor oil of this number will be satisfactory. For starred items nos. 21,22,23,24,25 use Rocol MTS1000 grease should be used in those territories where it is available"

I too have never understood this enigmatic instruction and I am sure the person who produced it is no longer available to explain the reasoning.

As Robbo says just use oil and never grease on these lub. points. I buy Castrol SAE 30 grade 4 stroke lawn mower oil which is more than adequate – don't waste your money on expensive modern motor oils.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Lambton, your oil specs are just like the fuel specs in one of my old aero engine hand books

Fuel: Good grade automobile fuel. The engine is the D.H. Gypsy III Aero Engine. It's a bit more specific on lubricating oil. Ian S C

[RobboParticipant @robbo]

Ian,

but in those days you could just taxi up to a petrol pump (hand-operated) and fill up!!

Phil

[RobboParticipant @robbo]

Seriously though, for Geoffrey,

There was an article in MEW no 184 on the care and lubrication of Myford series 7 lathes. Although a Super 7 was used as an example (because the author has one) the principles are the same.

The author, David Haythornthwaite, wrote it after getting specific advice from Myford staff at one of the open days "because of the confusion surrouinding the subject".

Geoffrey, if you want to see this article send me a PM.

Phil

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

I can imagine the scene

Chief Engineer “ Don’t need a manual for a lathe, every engineer has the common sense to know how to use one”

Marketing Director “ What’s a lathe? Google pictures look komplikated.”

CE knocks up manual “…….Lubricate as necessary….”

Marketing Director “Loo-ber- ic-kate. wow what a gi-nor-mouse word”

CE raises ECR001 “ …..oil here, here, and here….”

Marketing Director “ Oh, oil. Like wot Betty fries the chips in “

CE looks at barrel he is sitting on because chair budget was spent on printing manuals and raises ECR100 “….Oil to SAE 30…..”

Some clever Dick “ he he you missed that oiling point he he”

Exasperated CE raises ECR 500 “ ……..and * and * and *…….”

Marketing Director “…..OOOH Betty. Spinning lathey thing has done an oily whoopsy on my shirt”

CE, losing will to live, raises ECR1000 “….use grease…….”

Welcome to my world. Well I write specifications not user manuals but the sentiment is the same.

[magpieParticipant @magpie]

Fick engineeeer here askin wots an ECR. ??? Cheers Derek.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Derek,

My guess would be "Engineering Change Request" … but there are probably dozens of alternatives.

MichaelG.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

ECN at Acronym Finder

… any advance on 41 ?

MichaelG.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Well ECR yielded 76 but you were correct to start with. Pretty standard sort of terminology I thought around all the big old engineering companies, especially defence contractors, and now ISO9000 companies. Really anywhere that had a proper Drawing Office with those big old drawing boards and plan chests. I did wonder if anyone would ask, and also who might confuse CE with the more modern and American imported CEO.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Bazyle on 21/06/2013 16:37:10:

Well ECR yielded 76 but you were correct to start with.

.

Ooops !

… crossed my Change Notes with my Change Requests

MichaelG.

[Gone AwayParticipant @goneaway]

Posted by Bazyle on 20/06/2013 22:22:36:

CE knocks up manual “…….Lubricate as necessary….”

Bet that gives North American readers a chuckle

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Shouldn't you use an eraser on that one?

[Geoffrey HYDE FYNNParticipant @geoffreyhydefynn45631]

Thanks for all of your help and advice. The 1952 ML7 isback up and running and properly lubricated…

Thanks again.

Geoffrey

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Robbo on 19/06/2013 23:14:12:ee your manual recommends cleaning the leadscrew with paraffin and re-oiling.

The only place I would use grease is on the changewheels, and even there a good thick sticky oil is just as good – people have experimented with all sorts to quieten the changewheels for instance,

Motorcycle chain lube spray is a whole lot less messy on the change gears. Sticks like snot to a blanket and does not get flung everywhere. And it contains molybdenum and extreme pressure lubricant additives perfect for gear teeth.

Edited By Hopper on 26/06/2013 06:24:57

[RobboParticipant @robbo]

That sounds like good stuff, am using chainsaw oil at present because of it's anti-fling properties, and if it can stand the stress of chainsawing it can certainly stand the stress of a few changewheels.

Back in the olden days, motorcycle chain grease was like lard, we heated it up in a tin dish (old roasting tin if we could sneak it out of the kitchen), usually on top of an old Primus stove 'til it was warm and runny, then dunked the chain in it for a few minutes and hung it out to cool.

This was part of the Saturday ritual before riding out on Sunday.

Of course it is many years since I last had my leg over – a motorcycle – if I say Norton Dominator it will give you a clue how long!

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

I'v got some Catapillar cam lobe lubricant that I'm going to try, it's used when assembling Cat engines after overhaul, can't hurt. Ian S C

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Robbo on 26/06/2013 11:55:21:

That sounds like good stuff, am using chainsaw oil at present because of it's anti-fling properties, and if it can stand the stress of chainsawing it can certainly stand the stress of a few changewheels.

Back in the olden days, motorcycle chain grease was like lard, we heated it up in a tin dish (old roasting tin if we could sneak it out of the kitchen), usually on top of an old Primus stove 'til it was warm and runny, then dunked the chain in it for a few minutes and hung it out to cool.

This was part of the Saturday ritual before riding out on Sunday.

Of course it is many years since I last had my leg over – a motorcycle – if I say Norton Dominator it will give you a clue how long!

Ah yes, I remember the old round tins of Duckhams chain grease and waiting for Mum to go shopping so we could put it on the stove and soak the motorbike chains. –"What's that funny sulphury smell in the house?" — "Must have been the smell from the welding I was doing in the shed blew in the bedroom window Mum".

Thank goodness all that palaver is gone and modern o-ring chains last about five times longer with no more than the odd squirt of chain lube.

And I do remember the Norton Dominator. Got its big brother in the shed, Atlas 750.

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