beryllium copper compression spring needed

[ken king, King DesignParticipant @kenkingkingdesign]

where to find beryllium copper springs

[ken king, King DesignParticipant @kenkingkingdesign]

I need small beryllium copper compression springs, o.d in the range .125 – .250", in very small quantities.

Internet searches have been fruitless. Can anyone point me in the direction of a U.K. supplier please ? Alternatively, have you any experience of winding such springs yourself, in something like 24 – 26 SWG ?

Thanks,

Ken

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

Hello Ken,

Try these people in Redditch, I found them listed under a search for Springs UK

http://www.whrooke.co.uk

Regards Brian

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Be aware that beryllium is very poisonous and a splinter of beryllium swarf in a finger can be nasty.

Russell

[JohnFParticipant @johnf59703]

Try Springmasters in Redditch, **LINK**

Why are you wanting Beryllium springs ?

Edited By JohnF on 18/01/2018 11:27:55

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Russell,

I appreciate your caution about beryllium but in BeCu the Be is in solid solution with the copper or in very finely dispersed precipitates.

Here is an excerpt from a H&S sheet on BeCu handling.

The full document can be found here

Rather safer in the home workshop than lead solder, I suggest.

One great advantage of BeCu is that it can be manipulated in the soft state and then heat treated at relatively low temperature to harden the component. It is also, pretty much, corrosion proof.

Rod

[FMESParticipant @fmes]

Remembering back to my aircraft days the MoD was very cautious and careful with regard to the use and handling of BeCu. So much so those that came into contact with it had the details added to their personal records in case of future claims for industrial related illness.

Same for things like Cadmium and Magnesium Thorium.

Personally I wouldn't have anything to do with it unless you can be sure you can maintain an adequate barrier between it and all points of entry on yourself.

Lofty

[davebParticipant @daveb17630]

Posted by *.* on 18/01/2018 12:30:55:

Remembering back to my aircraft days the MoD was very cautious and careful with regard to the use and handling of BeCu. So much so those that came into contact with it had the details added to their personal records in case of future claims for industrial related illness.

Same for things like Cadmium and Magnesium Thorium.

Personally I wouldn't have anything to do with it unless you can be sure you can maintain an adequate barrier between it and all points of entry on yourself.

Lofty

Many years ago I was told that a cut from Copper/Beryllium would sooner or later lead to a heart attack. Needless to say we handled the stuff carefully.

Daveb

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Rod,

I was remembering from my days in the Philips Research Laboratories in the 1960s and 1970s. In the electronics labs we were forbidden to work on beryllium copper. Any such work had to be done in the technology labs where they were able to take appropriate precautions. Perhaps the hazards were over stated in those days but I would still be careful if using it at home now?

Microwave transistors incorporating beryllia heatsinks were considered to be very dangerous if broken.

Russell

Edited By Russell Eberhardt on 18/01/2018 16:32:18

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I bet we all have dozens of items containing beryllium copper in our workshops.

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Browsing, on my usual Thursday afternoon 'bus journey: I found this **LINK**

https://materion.com/businesses/performance-alloys/about/the-facts-about-copper-beryllium

MichaelG.

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Be Cu is commonly used in all sorts of electrical components, usually as a spring contacts. Be Cu is used to make non sparking tools for use in explosives and solvent rich areas. Golf clubs have been made from Be Cu. I think it is important to recognise that the Hazards associated with Be Cu are very different to those associated with Beryllium metal – Beryllium Oxide is particularly troublesome. In my experience even H&S professionals can confused by the difference (or just plain lazy and cover their arses with a blanket statement).

I suggest we need to be careful to consider the facts, as opposed to old wives tales, so that we don't avoid potentially useful materials in the home workshop. Many materials we use are potentially harmful if suitable care is not taken but most of us are happy to use various acids, fluxes, solders and other things with appropriate precautions.

Cheers,

Rod

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Beryllium used to be used in spot welding guns but I think it is now not used because of the risk even though small.

Mike

As copper alloy not in a pure form

Edited By Mike Poole on 18/01/2018 17:44:04

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

In the past I have machined a fair bit of beryllium copper for fast cycle time injection moulds. We had some tests done by a specialist company to assess the risks, they included a kind of vacuum cleaner thing with a big filter on the front. We would turn/mill/grind and spark erode whilst this vacuum would suck up air born contamination for checking in a lab. The results where inconclusive as to personal risk, none of us as operatives where convinced there was not some health hazard. A new safer material came along under the brand name of ampcalloy (spelling/memory?)

If I remember correctly the original beryllium was "Precipitate" heat treated to achieve the required hardness for our use. IMI in Birmingham stopped making breyillium over 50 years ago and I believe it is only made now in south America.

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

I never new beryllium copper was hazardous I regularly made welding and spot welding parts for Rolls Royce when I was an apprentice, mainly turned parts.

David

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

You might come to more harm working with copper(non domestic plumbing)that has an arsenic content.

Ian S C

[SandgrounderParticipant @sandgrounder]

Posted by Russell Eberhardt on 18/01/2018 16:28:54:

Rod,

I was remembering from my days in the Philips Research Laboratories in the 1960s and 1970s. In the electronics labs we were forbidden to work on beryllium copper. Any such work had to be done in the technology labs where they were able to take appropriate precautions. Perhaps the hazards were over stated in those days but I would still be careful if using it at home now?

Microwave transistors incorporating beryllia heatsinks were considered to be very dangerous if broken.

Russell

Edited By Russell Eberhardt on 18/01/2018 16:32:18

I worked for Mullard in the 1960's and probably read the same instruction as you that was sent out worldwide from Philips Eindhoven, this ordered that all Beryllium metal and compounds other than materials used in specially equipped areas be collected and sent off for safe disposal.

John

[Harry WilkesParticipant @harrywilkes58467]

John

Your reference to 'safe disposal ' brought a smile to my face in the 70's I worked with induction heating equipment the older models were 'valve sets' one the valves within the machine was the size of a goldfish bowl and contained beryllium copper. When the valve failed I simply purchased a new one the failed one was taken back in part exchange however this practice stopped and I was stuck with a valve I phoned the local council who told me I couldn't dispose of it I would need a specialised company to deal with it's safe disposal and to do that the best quote I had was £1200.00 !!!

H

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

I think my comments about H&S "professionals" and arse covering applies to that.

Rod

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by Sandgrounder on 19/01/2018 12:12:39:

I worked for Mullard in the 1960's and probably read the same instruction as you that was sent out worldwide from Philips Eindhoven, this ordered that all Beryllium metal and compounds other than materials used in specially equipped areas be collected and sent off for safe disposal.

John, It was Mullard Research Labs when I joined and Philips by the time I left. Which Mullard site were you at?

Russell

[SandgrounderParticipant @sandgrounder]

Posted by Harry Wilkes on 19/01/2018 13:08:15:

John

Your reference to 'safe disposal ' brought a smile to my face in the 70's I worked with induction heating equipment the older models were 'valve sets' one the valves within the machine was the size of a goldfish bowl and contained beryllium copper. When the valve failed I simply purchased a new one the failed one was taken back in part exchange however this practice stopped and I was stuck with a valve I phoned the local council who told me I couldn't dispose of it I would need a specialised company to deal with it's safe disposal and to do that the best quote I had was £1200.00 !!!

H

I won't ask you what you did with it, you never know who's reading these forms, LOL

John

[David Standing 1Participant @davidstanding1]

Posted by Sandgrounder on 19/01/2018 14:04:13:

Posted by Harry Wilkes on 19/01/2018 13:08:15:

John

Your reference to 'safe disposal ' brought a smile to my face in the 70's I worked with induction heating equipment the older models were 'valve sets' one the valves within the machine was the size of a goldfish bowl and contained beryllium copper. When the valve failed I simply purchased a new one the failed one was taken back in part exchange however this practice stopped and I was stuck with a valve I phoned the local council who told me I couldn't dispose of it I would need a specialised company to deal with it's safe disposal and to do that the best quote I had was £1200.00 !!!

H

I won't ask you what you did with it, you never know who's reading these forms, LOL

John

Any truth in the rumour that he has a goldfish that glows in the dark?

[SandgrounderParticipant @sandgrounder]

Posted by Russell Eberhardt on 19/01/2018 13:47:56:

Posted by Sandgrounder on 19/01/2018 12:12:39:

I worked for Mullard in the 1960's and probably read the same instruction as you that was sent out worldwide from Philips Eindhoven, this ordered that all Beryllium metal and compounds other than materials used in specially equipped areas be collected and sent off for safe disposal.

John, It was Mullard Research Labs when I joined and Philips by the time I left. Which Mullard site were you at?

Russell

I worked at Mullard Magnetic Components, Southport, it had moved from Mullard Blackburn Works in the 1950's along with a Valve Manufacturing Facility which was on a different site in Southport.

A while ago I posted this, it shows me on the right hand side of the photo, we were casting some Nimonic type alloys used for Tungsten wire swaging.

http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/images/member_albums/152997/671635.jpg

John

Edited By Sandgrounder on 19/01/2018 14:17:46

[Maurice Cox 1Participant @mauricecox1]

Earlier in this post, mention was made of cadmium being a hazard. When the G.P.O. as it was then, still used open (i.e. uninsulated) wire on their poles, they used cadmium copper as it was stronger. We were never given any safety warning about it. I wonder just how hazardous it was?

Maurice

[ken king, King DesignParticipant @kenkingkingdesign]

Thanks for the various links chaps; Redditch seems to be a hotspot as far as exotic springs are concerned, and isn't it interesting to view the number of responses suggesting suppliers, compared to those related to Health and Safety concerns. Having been involved in H & S professionally years ago I know it's important to maintain a sense of proportion alongside sensible concerns. Reading Material Safety Data Sheets is a bit like dipping into a medical textbook; ne can quickly go from feeling fit as a fiddle, to being convinced there are all sorts of things about to go wrong.

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