Any info on this tool post ?

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I will probably need a couple more tool holders for this style of tool holder and am not sure about interchangeability with clones etc.

Does anyone know and a good source of them etc?

John

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[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

I wish i had one and tool holders. Pro machine Tools sell a system the same.

Clive

[Thor 🇳🇴Participant @thor]

Hi John,

Looks like a Multifix tool holder to me, they are a sought-after accessory. There is some info here.

Thor

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

This guy is supposed to sell good clones at a good value

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

There are a couple of suppliers on ebay like this German guy but when you look closely past all the guff about superior quality you can see they are selling Chinese products and the pricing policy is a bit odd so it can actually cost you less if you buy several individual holders rather than a "set"(??). I had a bizarre exchange with the guy and walked away perplexed, as he didn't seem to want my money.

As well as "Multitfix" they are also referred to as "40 position" tool holders.

I plan to buy a set for my Bantam ("A" size) when the stars align and intend to get them from Create when they do. Unless you can get lucky and secure an original, genuine Multifix holder, they seem to be the next best and the pricing isn't bad. I reckoned an "A" set with a total of 9 various holders would come in at about £260 including shipping etc. Individual tool holders seem to be $32 each (plus carriage etc).

Murray

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Thanks for the info. As it's on a Wabeco I'd guess that it's probably a genuine one. The Newall dro that was on it wasn't included. I like the look of those, very neat – then I saw the price of them.

While they may be desirable I'm sorely tempted to replace it with a dickson type as I feel they have some advantages for me anyway as I could use some of my Boxford tools on it. That's fitted with an extended height branded Myford one. Good and bad, well made and easy to get holders for but a larger size without need for the height extension could hold bigger tools.

I'm not sure if it would work out. Does anyone know what the S7 and ML10 tool heights are above the compound slide and the dia of the fixing bolts?

John

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Edited By John W1 on 19/09/2015 19:46:24

[Steve PaveyParticipant @stevepavey65865]

Posted by Muzzer on 19/09/2015 16:57:46:

There are a couple of suppliers on ebay like this German guy but when you….

I plan to buy a set for my Bantam ("A" size) when the stars align and intend to get them from Create when Murray

That's interesting. I have an original Aa Multifix which I use on my Boxford and want to get a bigger set for the Harrison sometime soon. I'd more or less decided that Pewe were a better option than buying from Create in China because I thought the Chinese import would attract an import duty. Has anyone bought from Create and if so were there any unforseen import duties that you had to pay?

Just my opinion, but the Multifix is the best QC toolpost I have used – if I was the OP I would hang on to it and just buy the extra holders as and when I needed them.

[S.D.L.Participant @s-d-l]

Posted by Steve Pavey on 19/09/2015 21:04:08:

Posted by Muzzer on 19/09/2015 16:57:46:

There are a couple of suppliers on ebay like this German guy but when you….

I plan to buy a set for my Bantam ("A" size) when the stars align and intend to get them from Create when Murray

That's interesting. I have an original Aa Multifix which I use on my Boxford and want to get a bigger set for the Harrison sometime soon. I'd more or less decided that Pewe were a better option than buying from Create in China because I thought the Chinese import would attract an import duty. Has anyone bought from Create and if so were there any unforseen import duties that you had to pay?

Just my opinion, but the Multifix is the best QC toolpost I have used – if I was the OP I would hang on to it and just buy the extra holders as and when I needed them.

I have bought two sets from create. They miss declare the value so there is no import duty just the cost of the customs clearance with the carrier usually about twenty five pounds.

I had a genuine Dickinson on my Colchester student that used to flex and jam when parting steel, since fitting the clone multifix will part steel and stainless like butter.

Steve

[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

.

I have a multifix toolholding system from these people in Germany. **LINK**

Very happy with it. Speedy delivery from Germany with no extra import.

The parts are all stamped 'Made in Germany" – And I know the sausage guzzlers are very protective and have very stiff penalties for those that state such that ain't.

Nick

[Manny lambertParticipant @mannylambert86533]

Hi John, Germany is the best place to buy these without exception. Try and find axa multifix or Amestra both are made in Europe. I have the A size with 17 standard tool holders, 3 boring bar holders, 1 cut off tool holder. All bought used some in Uk and the rest Germany. I paid double in the Uk on the main auction site and approx Half price in Germany. Uk £40 per holder used (swiss ones) Germany £25.00 per holder used(made in west Germany). I would stay clear of anything else. One must remember that any far eastern tooling is designed to be thrown away after 5 years or so, and the resale value is poor or non existent. German Ebayers are normally willing to ship to UK. Do not buy new in Uk as I can get Amestra for 2/3 the price in Germany, Axa is very good also. All ways buy good quality tools and they will last a life time and keep their value.

Manny

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I expected to see comments about less flex, parting off and etc. They are interesting tool holders because if set up correctly they can set tools to precise angles reliably. That aspect is about it really – angles. The weakest aspect of any qctp is the base of the holder and they don't really differ from other types of similar size in that respect..

They do have one interesting fix of a problem home made qctp can suffer from so might be of interest to some. The pillar the entire holder sits on has a relatively low surface area at the bottom compared with other types suggesting that they would need tightening down more firmly than others. They have added a few sharp shallow rings / serrations to the underside of the pillar which actually dig into the surface they are mounted on. If they didn't do that they probably would slip/rotate under high loads. I had wondered how they get round that. The only aspect I was not clear on is compatibility between different makes.

A disappointment for me is that the holder has to be removed to set an angle as the cam action that pulls them back firmly hasn't sufficient movement to clear the serrations. This is fiddly compared with what I do with a Dickson type. According to mood I gauge by eye, use the face of the chuck to set a parting off tools square or even a square or protractor against a face of the holder using the outside of the compound slide as a reference for any angle.

They are a nice cheap alternative to the ratchet indexing that has been fitted to the bottom of some tool holders in the past and give more angle settings as well. The tool holder doesn't need rotating in one direction like those did either.

For me, as I mentioned I run 2 lathes and common holders make more sense than having 2 types. The only way I will get a 16mm boring bar on this machine is to make a holder myself, just like my Boxford due to it coming with a lot of Myford holders. It would cost way too much to replace those and just why should I remove a hefty clamp on knurling tool from it's holder to fit into a multifix one for instance. A number of other things too.

It turns out that it isn't genuine Multifix anyway. According to lathes co they are stamped with that if they are even in the USA where they may have Emco on the side. They were probably supplied by Wabeco but not marked as such. The price of the body is £178, 5 piece set (3 holders) £383, that's what the lathe came with. The lathe chucks are by Bison.

I'm still hoping for an answer on myford 7 ml10 / speed 10 aprox tool height above the compound slide top and fixing bolt diameters In case one looks more sensible for adaptation.

John

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[Steve PaveyParticipant @stevepavey65865]

I don't find it any problem to change the tool angle with the Multifix, in fact I've always found it very quick.

As for rigidity, as I said I have an Aa on my Boxford – it really should be the next size up, but it locks down solidly and has never moved when taking a cut, absolutely no problem parting off even tough stuff like 316, and absolute accuracy when removing and replacing a tool in its holder. By the way, mine has no serrations on the underside – I think it is only the later copies that have that feature. If you want to set an arbitary angle other than one of the 9° increments it is no bother to slacken the central hold-down bolt as you would with other types of tool post.

it's a pity yours isn't a B or an E set John, otherwise I'd be sending you a pm with an offer you couldn't refuse.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I don't expect any problem selling it Steve.

The dickson type has arrived. I will need to make a new bolt to hold it down as it's a bit taller than the multifix. There is a sort of projecting boss round the bolt hole which I suspect is fixed in place and wont come out otherwise it would be fine. The wabeco bolts also needs sleeving to match the bore of the holder.

I have a lot of the dickson style of holders with various things in them for the boxford. If I take one set correctly for the Boxford the tool just comes out a touch low on the wabeco. Not ideal but a minor problem really. It looks like the difference is too small to allow me to shim up the the actual tool post. The toolpost came with 2 extra holders as well. I sometime think I never have enough of them at times.

John

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[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Perhaps you could set the tools on the Wabeco and slightly skim the top of the Boxford top slide?

[Nick anonParticipant @nickanon93441]

I've just ordered a D4000, so I looked in to their Multi-Fix tools. It was confirmed that, although Wabeco machine tools are still made in Germany, all the accessories are imported from China or sometimes Taiwan in the case of some Vertex accessories. You can pick up an original Multi-Fix on Ebay for less than a new Chinese version.

cheers, Nick.

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Posted by John W1 on 20/09/2015 11:11:40:

….The weakest aspect of any qctp is the base of the holder and they don't really differ from other types of similar size in that respect..

In my view, the weakness of the Dickson relative to most other types is the way the tool holder is held against the open, slanted vertical faces of the block by a locking cam. It doesn't take a lot of formal analysis to figure out that the cutting loads on a cantilevered tool can transfer into very significant pull-out forces acting on that cam. Once that force exceeds the preload you have managed to apply with your locking key, the tool holder becomes springy and starts to move. In contrast, the cylindrical ribs on the mounting face of the Multifix are going to make it largely immune to the same forces. It would be different if the ribs were merely flats.

Well that's my considered opinion at any rate…

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I've seen all sorts of arguments like that Muzzer. trouble is it doesn't happen – not on well made ones anyway or on any lathe that I am likely to have at home. They do slip round on some lathes – if they have enough power and the cut is big enough. I'd guess this is why they have added the serrations on the multifix types.

As I see it the Dickson style is an old a trusted design that does its job that people have lusted after for a very long time if they didn't have one. Something new comes out and ………………………

Anyway there are other things that would flex more before the tool post flexed such as the base of the holders. A common feature on all of them. Best rigidity is physical contact between the tool and the top of the slide even if this is the ordinary 4 way or a correctly designed lantern type.

John

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