A very small Shaping Machine …

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Design Ideas invited –

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I am considering building a small [and simple] Shaper for horological and similar work, and would welcome any Design Ideas.

• Working envelope no greater than 100mm cube
• To machine Non-Ferrous materials only

Thanks in anicipation of expert advice from the Shaper enthusiasts.

MichaelG.

.

There are three pictures of a delightful little machine by Vautrin, on this page ; but I would probably want something a little less delicate.

 

 

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 21/10/2013 18:46:41

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The one that was recently in Best of ME Vol3 would be about that size.

J

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Shame I decided not to buy it [after a quick skim in WHSmiths]

MichaelG.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Drifting slightly from my own topic …

I just found this [which is somewhat smaller than I had in mind]

MichaelG.

[NobbyParticipant @nobby]

Hi Michael & Guys
I have a small Drummond hand shaper it great to use.
Good luck finding or making one
Nobby

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Nice looking machine, Nobby

But it appears to be bigger and heftier than I need.

Just as a "sanity check" for me … what is the "Working Envelope" of that one?

Thanks

MichaelG.

[Keith LongParticipant @keithlong89920]

Hi Michael

This link at Vintage Projects :- http://www.vintageprojects.com/machine-shop/shaper-metal-plans.html might give you some ideas.

I think I've seen another design in "Practical Mechanics" or "Popular Mechanics" a Google search should find those.

Keith

edit also Model Engineer OCTOBER 9, 1952.

Edited By Keith Long on 21/10/2013 23:49:12

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

Michael;

I really like the Martin Models "Strong Arm" shaper – modelled after the little Adept. About a 4" x4" x4" cube working area.

As I already have a Hand Shaper (Nobby is not the only one!) I don't know if I'll ever get around to getting a set of the Martin Models castings or not.

Web site : http://www.martinmodel.com

The castings shipped overseas might set you back a bit; even shipping "north of the border" is problematic.

John A. Stewart.

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

i thought that the model engineers size vertical mill such as the dore westbury and all that has gone since has made shapers obsolete? (dore westbury owner here). cant understand why anyone would want a shaper in this day and age!

cheers,

julian

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

How about a model metal planer?

"cant understand why anyone would want a shaper in this day and age"

If you need to ask then you'll never understand

Edited By Ady1 on 22/10/2013 01:19:20

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

Posted by julian atkins on 22/10/2013 01:00:47:

… cant understand why anyone would want a shaper in this day and age!

Its kind of like what ex-smokers go through – you *think* you are past it, when one comes along at a good price, and the temptation is sooo strong…. sooo strong and precious…. I feel like Gollum in Lord of the Rings…

Passed by a couple of nice-sized ones recently, but the Drummond hand powered one from a club member was too good to pass up, and it helped him do a necessary cleaning out of his workshop.

I'm thinking of taking it to the 2014 local "Maker Faire", and let people zip a tool along some brass or something – kids at the 2013 Maker Faire had incredibly little knowledge of machining.

Another JohnS.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Keith / John / Ady

Many thanks for the suggestions. … Of these; the 1952 Model Engineer article, and the Martin Models [Adept-ish] design, are most interesting.

Unfortunately: Everything does look somewhat coarser than I had in mind … probably because the designers expected to work on Iron Castings.

I anticipate working mainly on Brass/Bronze, and hard Aluminium Alloys; and will be happy to take very light cuts. The Shaper would be used for precision detailing, not for rapid stock-removal. [My proposed "envelope" was based on the overall size of some Microscope and Camera components.]

I may need to to re-think the approach: Perhaps it should be a "portable" Shaper Head, that can be clamped to another structure [Angle Plate, etc.], … like those magnetic drills that they use on girders ??

Please keep the ideas coming

MichaelG.

…………….

Julian,

I already have a BCA MkIII (which is a Mill cum Jig Borer), but there are some jobs that seem better suited to the Shaper.

Thanks for the thought though.

MichaelG.

[TrevorhParticipant @trevorh]

Ok so where do I get the plans for the flat bed planer,

Haven't seen one of those since I worked in the oil industry when machine shops where real machine shops,

I use to operate 1 that had a bed travel/stroke of 10' – thats approx 3mtr in old money and was driven by old leather flat belts

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Shapers are brilliant machines for holding a section of floor down securely until you can get a more useful machine to take it's place.

[Davey JParticipant @daveyj]

How about David Gingery's shaper? I am sure that could be hand driven with a little thought. Just started working on the patterns for mine

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by John Stevenson on 22/10/2013 09:15:31:

Shapers are brilliant machines for holding a section of floor down securely until you can get a more useful machine to take it's place.

.

Nice one, John

But, at the scale I want, it might hold down a place-mat until my dinner arrives.

MichaelG.

[NobbyParticipant @nobby]

Hi Julian & Guys
How would you machine a true semi circular groove say about 1" dia 4" long 1/2" deep in MS. on a small manual milling machine . ? Got my flak jacket ready !!!

Nobby

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Davey J on 22/10/2013 09:26:34:

How about David Gingery's shaper? I am sure that could be hand driven with a little thought. Just started working on the patterns for mine

.

Davey,

Thanks for the thought; but the Gingery Shaper is much bigger and heavier than I want, and [from what I have read], it's at the "rapid stock removal" end of things.

MichaelG.

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Hi Michael,

If the spec could be improved to include ferrous metals (surely not that much of a challenge?) wouldn't this be an ideal crowd-source design project?

>How would you machine a true semi circular groove say about 1" dia 4" long 1/2" deep in MS. on a small manual milling machine . ? Got my flak jacket ready !!!

The CNC fraternity would load up a 1mm round-nose end mill, press 'go' and retire to watch teh TV for a few weeks…

Neil

Edited By Stub Mandrel on 22/10/2013 11:56:44

[NobbyParticipant @nobby]

HI guys
How about surface grinding on a hand shaper ? Grinding dust ?
Nobby

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Stub Mandrel on 22/10/2013 11:11:31:

Hi Michael,

If the spec could be improved to include ferrous metals (surely not that much of a challenge?) wouldn't this be an ideal crowd-source design project?

Neil

.

Neil,

An interesting question … and I don't know the answer

But; personally, I would not consider it an improvement, changing the spec to include ferrous metals.

• There are many existing designs capable of handling Ferrous
• The cutting forces would [presumably] need to be higher
• Therefore the machine would need to be stronger.
• This rapidly escalates, as the specification creeps.

Having spent some years designing vibration test fixtures: One of the important lessons learned was that stiffness can be designed-in, but strength generally cannot. Therefore by restricting the range of materials, and depths, to be cut; I hope to build a compact, lightweight, machine which does what I need.

Others may well have different requirements; and I would be happy to participate in a bigger project.

MichaelG.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Was around at a local engineers workshop the other day, he had two tables of old planer machines that hes going to make a work bench from, 3 tons each, probably 10ft x 3ft.

MichaelG, I'v got a copy of "English Mechanic and Mirror of Science", May 1868 (a year after the Paris exhibition), it has an article on Vautrin's miniature planer, along with an etching of it mounted in a bench vice, over the next day or so I'll scan it to my album. Ian S C

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Ian,

That's wonderful

Thank You

MichaelG.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

The Adept No1 would be ideal – mounts in a bench vice. One went for peanuts (and if you've bought peanuts recently you'll understand that alanogy isn't what it used to be) at the recent St Albans exhibition tool stand. Still feeling the pain of not snapping it up.

A starting point might be two angle plates set up like the Adept for chassis and table, then an old cross slide & top slide for the mechanism. For vertical adjustment it does not need to be a parallel slide so a hinged action migth be simpler. A good size lift up screwcutting/boring holder could make the clapper and double up on the lathe.

Like the grinder idea Nobby. Also a good basis for a clock wheel engine with a small cutter frame in the holder and room for a big indexing plate hanging over the front.

[Author]

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