1.5 Morse Taper Short Form

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1.5 Morse Taper Short Form

This topic has 12 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 19 August 2013 at 23:33 by Neville Chase.

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18 July 2010 at 19:58 #53544
John Macaulay
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@johnmacaulay21054
Does anyone have the specification for a 1.5 MT short form. This is the headstock taper in my TOYO ML1 lathe. I have had a few queries from around the world for copies of the manual which I have given freely to model engineers refurbishing the TOYO. However I have not been able to advise as to where they can get the headstock taper from. All current mini lathes seem to have 1 MT or 2 MT in the headstock
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18 July 2010 at 19:58 #11682
John Macaulay
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@johnmacaulay21054
18 July 2010 at 22:25 #53554
Sub Mandrel
Participant
@submandrel
Hi John,

I can only confirm you are not insane – I have read of in-between morse tapers so you are not hallucinating!

Machinery’s handbook is sielent on half-step tapers, but does make it clear that ‘stub tapers’ are the large end of the normal taper.

The taper per foot of MT1 is 0.59858″ and MT2 is 0.59941, and increases a little for each larger size. I would guess, therefore, that MT1.5 should be very close to 0.5990″ per foot.

I do wonder, though, if MT1.5 stub form is actually the small end of a normal MT2 taper? Have you tried to see what happens when you push and MT2 into the headstock?

I hope this helps a little.
18 July 2010 at 23:42 #53563
Dinosaur Engineer
Participant
@dinosaurengineer
I think that MT1.5 is what the americans call a “stub taper” This is a shortened version of a standard MT1 taper .The stub taper details are as follows ( Std.MT1 in brackets) ;-

Taper per foot 0.59858 (0.59858) , small end dia of plug 0.369″ (0.4314) , shank length incl tang shank 1_5 /16″ (2_9/16″) , The stub taper MT1 ( or MT1.5 as we call it) has a plug depth of 7/8″ so any reduced length MT1 standard taper without tang will fit , provided it does not penetrate the socket hole by more than say 13/16″ . This is asuming that there is a step at the end of the socket taper. It may be that a standard MT shank will fit provided that there’s no step at the end of the socket taper.
19 July 2010 at 00:11 #53564
Dinosaur Engineer
Participant
@dinosaurengineer
It may be as Stub mandrel says that the MT1.5 is the a shortened version of the standard MT2 taper. It may be that the American stub shank is not the same length as our “1/2” sizes. But the American sizes are as follows for ref purposes.

The coresponding MT2 American stub taper shank has a plug depth of 1_1/16″ .

For ref ,MT2 has a taper per foot of 0.59941.

A simple measurement of the dia at the open end end of the spindle socket should give an idea of what the taper is . MT1 dia would be 0.475″ & MT2 dia would be 0.700″. If there’s no step in the taper then a std. MT2 may fit as suggested by Stub Mandrel .
20 July 2010 at 13:45 #53647
John Macaulay
Participant
@johnmacaulay21054
Hi Guys

I may have thrown you a red herring with this post.

Firstly I checked the specification and it says

Head spindle taper MT. 1.5

Tail spindle taper Morse taper #1

I assumed MT stood for morse taper!!!

Secondly I checked the centre from my headstock and the taper is approx 26:1 while all morse tapers are approx 20:1

I have checked all the other known mechanical tapers and none fit that I can find

TOYO-ML1 made by SAKAI Special MFG Co Ltd made in Japan and I believe imported by Record I need an exact specification for the taper

Edited By John Macaulay on 20/07/2010 13:46:58
20 July 2010 at 14:04 #53648
Keith Long
Participant
@keithlong89920
Hi John

Have you looked at Brown & Sharpe taper specs? They are generally 24:1 so much nearer to your 26:1, you’ll probably need some very accurate measuring to be certain.

Keith
20 July 2010 at 15:04 #53649
NJH
Participant
@njh
Hi there

Well Tony Griffiths states on his site – ( http://www.lathes.co.uk/toyo/page3.html ) -that the Toyo-ML1 ” …carried an unusual size of Morse
taper in the nose – a 1.5.”

You could give him a call?

Norman
20 July 2010 at 18:20 #53657
John Macaulay
Participant
@johnmacaulay21054
Hi Guys

I think I have cracked it!! Turning my attention to the socket, a 1.5MT should be 14.92 mm at the mouth. Puting the centre in and calipering against the spindle face gives a dimension of 13.45 mm. Re-examining the taper, the centre had some relief at the front end, the taper is approximately 20:1, so it is a Morse taper. I can accept that the mouth dimension is not an exact 1.5 but the intension was there and it is difficult to measure, probably more so in production. Thanks to everyone for making my think harder. It is a super little lathe that sits nicely with my PROXXON PD230/e (most tooling is interchangable), and of course my Wabeco D6000.

Thanks again
17 July 2012 at 11:55 #94612
Neville Chase
Participant
@nevillechase52412
Draging up an old thread here in the hope that John is still around. If you are John, do you still have the Toyo Manual. Lost mine,so hopefully I can get it from you again.

Nev.
27 July 2013 at 02:01 #125510
Neville Chase
Participant
@nevillechase52412
Bump! Still looking for John or anyone that has the Toyo Manual.

Thanks

Nev.
27 July 2013 at 07:20 #125513
John Macaulay
Participant
@johnmacaulay21054
Sorry to all who have sent messaages and not had a reply. I have attended to them now. It would seem that the Proxxon 230/E ia a modern equivalent for the TOYO ML1. I have all the attachments for the Proxxon so can check if they fit the TOYO. Try contacting me on info@onetwelfthscale.co.uk if you want to check before you spend.
19 August 2013 at 23:33 #127324
Neville Chase
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@nevillechase52412
Thanks for resending the Toyo Manual John.

Nev.
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