where does one go.

This topic has 21 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 28 December 2014 at 15:40 by Robbo.

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13 December 2014 at 22:28 #172468
Ian L2
Participant
@ianl2
Where does one go to purchase small round bar (around 33-35mm dia by around 100mm long) suitable for hardening and what type steel should I ask for? need to machine a thread on outside bore the inside then harden it, I then need to heat it up so when its on the shaft and cooled its not coming off. I have contacts via work who purchase steel but supplier only sells large amounts.
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13 December 2014 at 22:28 #7402
Ian L2
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@ianl2
13 December 2014 at 22:50 #172473
Bill Pudney
Participant
@billpudney37759
Can't help you with a shop for steel. However I think you may be heading for a problem…. Heating the hardened part up to shrink fit it is likely to anneal, or at least soften the part. I would suggest that you consider loctite, if you use the right grade and do it i.a.w. instructions it will not come off….

best of luck

cheers

Bill
13 December 2014 at 23:09 #172474
Ian L2
Participant
@ianl2
Posted by Bill Pudney on 13/12/2014 22:50:48:

Can't help you with a shop for steel. However I think you may be heading for a problem…. Heating the hardened part up to shrink fit it is likely to anneal, or at least soften the part. I would suggest that you consider loctite, if you use the right grade and do it i.a.w. instructions it will not come off….

best of luck

cheers

Bill

Wondered about that but it would not be getting much more than domestic oven hot so thought it would not soften it much.
13 December 2014 at 23:23 #172475
JohnF
Participant
@johnf59703
Ian, would be helpful if you said where you are located, your prifile can do this, and regarding the material it depends on what the application is, more info needed to offer appropriate advice but there are quite a few suppliers of small quantities of steel, try M-machine metals.
13 December 2014 at 23:51 #172476
Mark C
Participant
@markc
You might find an air hardening tool steel A2 or D2 will fit your application if it is small csa and not critical hardness etc. Both should be available as short cut lengths.

Mark
14 December 2014 at 08:44 #172489
Ian L2
Participant
@ianl2
Good point JohnF will do that as when I have found some material might be asking who's local who has working lathe. (mines in bits). might do sketch of what the application but will have to scan it at work tomorrow.

Thanks Mark C.
14 December 2014 at 09:33 #172491
John Haine
Participant
@johnhaine32865
I just got 2 3-inch lengths of 2 inch f/c steel from College Engineering Supplies. Their minimum order quantity is 6 inches. Arrived very quickly, 2 days after ordering.

Why does it need to be hardened? If the thread is for fixing, few such threads are hardened. If for adjusting, then hardening will distort it so may lose accuracy (depending on how important that is. CES also stock EN8 and EN24 which are tougher, harder to machine, but could be quite adequate for the job without hardening.

As for fixing, the trouble with shrinking on is getting the dimension just right, and working fast (if you don't heat to high temperature). You start to fit the heated bit which is smaller and has lower thermal capacity, it cools a bit, sticks, and cools down more, before you know it it is stuck fast in the wrong place. You can't shift it because it is very hard to differentially heat the sleeve and shaft. The only times I have used shrink fit, I cooled the inside in the freezer (because it was small enough to go in) and heated the outer with a blowlamp until it was well over 200 C judging by the fact it was just starting to colour – went together OK but cooled and locked very fast, I wouldn't like to try this with a long workpiece unless I could get it nearly red hot.

Much safer to use Loctite! Dimensions not so critical, and you get some time to position the sleeve just right.
14 December 2014 at 09:42 #172494
JohnF
Participant
@johnf59703
Ian have a look at your messages John
14 December 2014 at 20:10 #172568
Ian L2
Participant
@ianl2
Thanks for all the good useful info. I'm on few other car related forums but you guys (and just to be correct girls if there is any) are pretty high on my list already as the best. Any way back to this topic. Just run a file over the spindle and its not as hard as I first thought. Below is picture of the spindle and its easy to see the problem. Now apart from making threaded part to attach to the damaged area (after removing the thread) as someone has mentioned the re-threading of the spindle and making new threaded collar could also work the only problem I see which might not be as bigger problem as I think is how to hold this in a lathe the bearing at the other end is not easy removed without wrecking it and very expensive to replace. Any thoughts appreciated.

Must also add there is chance that I might be able to get second hand spindle from fellow ME member so just pursuing other options as back up plan.

Edited By Ian L2 on 14/12/2014 20:14:30
14 December 2014 at 20:25 #172571
Swarf Maker
Participant
@swarfmaker85383
Ian, you have a personal message
14 December 2014 at 21:16 #172582
Ian L2
Participant
@ianl2
Posted by Swarf Maker on 14/12/2014 20:25:41:

Ian, you have a personal message

Hi again as fellow member (Swarf Maker) has rightly pointed out that I have not actually mentioned what this is for so just so as not to confuse the item is a lathe spindle.
14 December 2014 at 21:21 #172584
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
If you have enough wall thickness to turn off the thread and fit a sleeve then you should definately have enough to just skim off the thread, recut a smaller dia one and make up a new adjusting ring to fit that thread

As for holding it in teh lateh assuming the spindle has a MT taper then hold a blank in the 4-jaw taper poking out , push the spindle onto this and support the other end with a fixed steady while you turn down the end.

J
14 December 2014 at 22:04 #172590
Ian L2
Participant
@ianl2
Posted by JasonB on 14/12/2014 21:21:24:

If you have enough wall thickness to turn off the thread and fit a sleeve then you should definately have enough to just skim off the thread, recut a smaller dia one and make up a new adjusting ring to fit that thread

As for holding it in teh lateh assuming the spindle has a MT taper then hold a blank in the 4-jaw taper poking out , push the spindle onto this and support the other end with a fixed steady while you turn down the end.

That made me think a little but think i know what you mean. Will the MT hold it tight enough so as to not spin while cutting a thread. I would have to get this done out as mi lathe is in bits this being one of them .
15 December 2014 at 07:33 #172611
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
If you were worried about it working loose then a bit of studing in the MT blank with a washer and nut sticking out teh spindle would hold it tight. Or if you have a large tailstock centre that could be use dinstead of the fixed steady and it won't go anywhere. Yes the actual MT will give enough drive.

There is another man on this forum who would just build up the damaged area with weld and cut a new thread
15 December 2014 at 08:15 #172613
Russell Eberhardt
Participant
@russelleberhardt48058
I would just use a three jaw on the chuck register with some brass shim to protect the latter and the spindle supported close to the threaded portion with a fixed steady.

Ian, did you see the sectional drawing I posted in your other thread?

Russell.
15 December 2014 at 13:23 #172637
Ian L2
Participant
@ianl2
Posted by Russell Eberhardt on 15/12/2014 08:15:07:

I would just use a three jaw on the chuck register with some brass shim to protect the latter and the spindle supported close to the threaded portion with a fixed steady.

Ian, did you see the sectional drawing I posted in your other thread?

Russell.

Yes I have seen the dwg thanks Russell. Once I know what getting the spindle usable again is going to cost then I can concenterate on bearings. as the bearing problem int a problem if I dont have good spindle. and if I have to purchase second hand spindle might be lucky ang get bearings from same source at same time.
15 December 2014 at 13:54 #172640
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
As its the bearing preload nut and there's some meat left in the spindle, I would get the end rethreaded at a smaller diameter and a nut made to fit. It's an easier job as as along as the spindle and nut as the exact thread doesn't matter as long as they match. No worries about concentricity/fit of sleeves etc.

Neil
15 December 2014 at 21:51 #172682
Ian L2
Participant
@ianl2
Ok. Thanks for the replies.
26 December 2014 at 17:35 #173686
Ian L2
Participant
@ianl2
Posted by Neil Wyatt on 15/12/2014 13:54:19:

As its the bearing preload nut and there's some meat left in the spindle, I would get the end rethreaded at a smaller diameter and a nut made to fit. It's an easier job as as along as the spindle and nut as the exact thread doesn't matter as long as they match. No worries about concentricity/fit of sleeves etc.

Hi all who contributed just in-case anyone at any point wonder's the outcome of the preload thread. I gave it to a m/c shop that does some work for the company I work for and they turned the old thread, re-cut new and made new preload nut. When I asked "how much" they come back with (and I gasped) no charge glad to help.
27 December 2014 at 08:52 #173727
Ian S C
Participant
@iansc
Lucky b***er, good Christmas pressy.

Ian S C
28 December 2014 at 15:40 #173824
Robbo
Participant
@robbo
Hope you put some money in their tea kitty!
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