Amadeal XJ300 miller T slots

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Amadeal XJ300 miller T slots

This topic has 55 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated 10 January 2012 at 19:31 by Sub Mandrel.

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2 January 2012 at 14:48 #81067
Wolfie
Participant
@wolfie
Can anyone give me the dimensions of the T slots on the bed of an Amadeal XJ300-12 please?

I have one on order and I’d like to be getting some t-nuts and studs ready.
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2 January 2012 at 14:48 #5832
Wolfie
Participant
@wolfie
2 January 2012 at 20:41 #81096
John Hinkley
Participant
@johnhinkley26699
Wolfie,

I have one of these mills. I’m delighted with it. Rather than give you the dimensions of the tee slots, I’ve just measured the tee nuts themselves. Can’t see how to insert anything but a jpeg picture here so I’ll try something else!

A ————————– B

   I              I

   I___ D    ___I C

           I                 I

           I I

           I                 I

   ————– F

Phew! That took some fiddling!

A to B 18.5mm

B to C 5mm

C to D 3.5mm

D to F 7mm

Therefore, B to F (vertically, of course) 12mm

Thread is 8mm.

The slots are nominally 12mm wide.

Hope you can make sense of that!

Regards,

John

Edited By John Hinkley on 02/01/2012 20:44:49

Edited By John Hinkley on 02/01/2012 20:45:18

Edited By John Hinkley on 02/01/2012 20:45:35

Edited By John Hinkley on 02/01/2012 20:45:59

Edited By John Hinkley on 02/01/2012 20:47:15
2 January 2012 at 21:20 #81101
Sub Mandrel
Participant
@submandrel
Hi Wolfie, it looks like an X2 clone, but though the slots could be different, here are the dimensions of my X2 tee-nuts. Mine appear to be imperial

Commercial nut:

AB 11/16″

BC 1/4″ bare*

CD 1/8″ bare

DF 1/4″ full*

My own nuts:

AB 3/4″

BC 3/16″

CD 1/8″

DF 3/16″

In other words these are made by milling a 3/16″ deep by 1/8″ wide step along each side of a strip of 3/4″ by 3/8″ bar, drilling and tapping holes and sawiing into separate nuts.

Both work fine although my own ones with a wider base are less tolerant of swarf in the slots. The slot width is 1/2″.

The commercial clamping set uses M10 screws, which I think are far too large, and if overtightened could break a slot easily. My own ones use M8 and M6 screws – I clamp my rotary table with two M6 screws and it has never slipped.

The stepped clamps and other bits feel huge and clumsy, but do offer a very secure and flexible solution – I just wish they were only about 2/3 -3/4 the size.

Neil

*bare means a loose fit in the stated dimension, full means its a tidgy bit over.
2 January 2012 at 21:28 #81104
Wolfie
Participant
@wolfie
Brilliant, thankyou chaps!

I was hoping to use M8 so that will be fine. I’m not going to go for a commercial set, reading Harolds book has convinced me that I can make anything I need.

While we are at it, all the pictures of these small milling machines show them with a drill chuck. Surely you don’t mill in a drill chuck??

Edited By Wolfie on 02/01/2012 21:33:21
2 January 2012 at 21:52 #81112
Francis Sykes
Participant
@francissykes95134
No, you don’t, the drill chuck is there for, well, drilling! You need either a collet set or a collet holder.

Personally I’ve gone for collets, just to maximise rigidity. But I believe the collet holders are quicker to use.
2 January 2012 at 23:14 #81123
Wolfie
Participant
@wolfie
One would assume they come with the machine?
2 January 2012 at 23:58 #81124
David Haynes
Participant
@davidhaynes53962
Sorry, but I think they will have to be bought separately. As this mill is an MT3 spindle you will need to get the collet holder with the set and I think that Amadeal do the set at

Morse 3 for £47, I suspect this is only ER25 and you may find more flexibility with an MT3 ER32 set ER32 but this is more pricey at £95

You may just want to start with just an MT3 ER32 collet holder and 3 or 4 common sizes. If you are doing milling with the more common small size cutters (around 3/8″) then they tend to have the same (3/8″) shank size and therefore you only need one collet for milling (for now!). 3/8″ is either a 3/8″ imperial collet or a 10-9mm collet. Amadeal don’t do an MT3 ER32 collet holder but Chronos have one Chronos for £49 and each ER32 also the collets, if you get Soba I think they are about £8 each.

Dave

Edited By David Clark 1 on 03/01/2012 18:22:29
3 January 2012 at 00:40 #81127
Wolfie
Participant
@wolfie
Do I understand from that last post that the machine in question is not supplied with the wherewithal to start milling on the spot??

A bit like when we were bairns we bought a pushbike and it had mudguards and lights attached, nowadays they seem to be optional extras.

If thats the case Amadeal is about to get a good Yorkshire kick in the arse
3 January 2012 at 06:46 #81133
Ian S C
Participant
@iansc
I don’t know if it works in the UK, but you could try, go along with a fist full of cash, and suggest that, something could be done in the way of a discount, thats how I got my clamping set. Ian S C
3 January 2012 at 07:41 #81138
David Haynes
Participant
@davidhaynes53962
In all fairness, you will find this with just about any of them machines on sale at the moment. You could pick up one or two end cutters for less than £10 each and it is possible to do a little light milling using the supplied ‘drilling’ chuck, but it is not designed for this and you would be wise to move to collets; even with ER collets there is dispute as to whether they are close enough into the bearings. Oh, and yes, you are right about the bikes; I never got a new one so the bits came with it anyway!

Dave
3 January 2012 at 08:27 #81139
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
As David says there are very few machines sold with a means of holding milling cutters though I do find Amadeal are a bit tight with standard items, there lathes may look less expensive but unlike most they don’t come with steadies or even a faceplate as standard.

J
3 January 2012 at 09:22 #81140
Terryd
Participant
@terryd72465
Hello David Haynes,

I think that your long links have pushed the page wide so that the posts cannot be read properly. It is a problem with this site. To add links like these, type in a keyword such as ‘Chronos’ , highlight it and then add your link. It then looks like this:

Chronos

This will link to the same page without the widening of the posts. Don’t worry, it happens often on here, especially as there is no ‘How To’ advice.

Hi Wolfie,

Arc Eurotrade do reasonably priced versions of the ER range of chucks. I went for ER25 as it goes up to 16 mm which is the largest shank cutter I use. You can also buy a lathe collet chuck to match and use the same collets for turning accurately. Saves having several sets of different collets.

The beauty of the ER (and similar) systems is that one collet will hold a range of sizes, usually a range of 1mm per collet so that with a set of collets all the sizes you need are covered, and metric collets will accept imperial as well because of their flexibility.

Best regards

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 03/01/2012 09:30:18

Edited By Terryd on 03/01/2012 09:35:51
3 January 2012 at 10:50 #81145
Wolfie
Participant
@wolfie
Riiiiigght

Do I understand then that I need to buy a set of collets such as this ER thing? I see that they come with different numbers, ER16, ER20 etc. Does this simply indicate the size of cutter it will take?

And they will fit anything with the correct MT taper size?
3 January 2012 at 11:03 #81146
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
You can either use MT taper collets but they are size specific so you will need one for each size metric shank and one fore each size imperial shank that you want to use. The advantage is less tool protrusion and as only one taper is involved more concentric.

If you go the ER route then the ER collets fit into a holder that has a MT shank but they are slightly adjustable so a 7-6mm will hold 7mm and 1/4″ items and 6mm at a pinch but the 6-5mm size would be better to hold a 6mm tool. the Numbers refer to the actual size of the end of the collet , all are available in a range of bore sizes that have 1mm adjustment eg 7-6mm, 6-5mm etc The bigger the ER number the larger the size range.

I would go for ER 25 if the mill is about X2 size though if you want to think about using on the lathe then the ER 32 would have a better range

The other option is whats called an auto-loc holder but you will be limiting your choice of cutters to screwed shank ones.

Beware the sets of holders & collets that are sold and look very much like ER but they are an odd far eastern design and you won’t be able to swap holders or get other size collets.

J

Edited By JasonB on 03/01/2012 11:07:23
3 January 2012 at 11:41 #81147
Wolfie
Participant
@wolfie
Thanks for that, what I meant was that the ER collet holder has the MT taper so I simply get the one that fits my miller. Say ER25 collets and ER25 collet holder with 3MT?
3 January 2012 at 11:51 #81148
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
Yep, if you are buying from another supplier just make sure the draw bar thread is the same as the bar that comes with the mill (M12) Same applies to any other tooling unless its an unmissable bargain and then you need to make a suitable drawbar for it.

J
3 January 2012 at 12:41 #81150
John Hinkley
Participant
@johnhinkley26699
When I bought my XJ12-300 from Amadeal, I also got a collet set. It was a “cheap” set. It does the job fine – but it’s a non-standard size – a halfway between ER25 and ER32. With hindsight, I should have specified an ER25 set and paid a bit extra. Typical! Now I’m adding an ER collet set to my tooling. I agree with previous posters who warn about the additional cost of the tooling to go with your mill – it’s easy to get carried away with that extra little tool you just can’t live without.

Unfortunately I can’t read all the posts at the top, because of the long links in David Haynes posts, so, if I’ve repeated something from those, I apologise.

Regards,

John

Edited By John Hinkley on 03/01/2012 12:41:59
3 January 2012 at 13:23 #81151
Terryd
Participant
@terryd72465
Hi John,

I have reported the problem with David’s post to the moderators but it seems as though no one is listening. C’est la vie on this forum I think!

Best regards

Terry
3 January 2012 at 13:26 #81152
Terryd
Participant
@terryd72465
Hi Wolfie,

If you look at one of the suppliers ranges of collets it will become more understandable. You need to get a set which suits you, the work you intend, to do and it must fit your machine as they are all available with the standard machine tapers and drawbar sizes.

Regards

Terry
3 January 2012 at 13:38 #81153
Wolfie
Participant
@wolfie
Can I assume that if I get an ER25 collet holder with the correct MT size and drawbar thread from one supplier and then get ER25 collets from elsewhere that they will be compatible?

Looking at my preferred Model Engineering supplier their MT3 holder has the wrong drawbar thread but they do have ER25 collets (and I have some gift vouchers to use there!) . So if I was to get their set of collets and a correctly sized collet holder for my machine elsewhere?
3 January 2012 at 14:19 #81154
Wolfie
Participant
@wolfie
OK panic over they have it listed wrongly on the website
3 January 2012 at 16:31 #81157
Peter G. Shaw
Participant
@peterg-shaw75338
If, as I suspect, this machine is the same as the Warco MiniMill, then you may well receive in the toolkit TWO drawbars, one for 12mm and the other for 3/8 inch imperial.

I have the Warco MiniMill and suggest the following:

Depending on your requirements, buy a set of MT3 direct collets at around £7 each. These fit directly into the spindle with very little sticking out thus giving the maximum stiffness to the milling cutter. It also removes all the messing around with ER adaptors and collets etc.

There are two ranges, metric & imperial, but if you are like me, you will standardize on one set, eg metric. In any case, you can always buy individually as the need arises.

One advantage of the direct collets is that being as close to the head as they are does give an increase in the available daylight under the head. This may be important. (Later on after you have realised just how rubbish that side spring is, and you have discovered the gas strut modification, you will then be able to gain a further slight increase in the daylight available!)

My experience with the Warco machine, and a friends machine is that the plastic gears inside don’t last too long initially. They are ok once you’ve smashed a set because you are then careful, but just in case, there are metal gears available from Arc Euro Trade: look for C3 spares where they are shown as C3/X2 gears.

Another thing you may wish to check is the fine feed function – to see if it actually works. Of course, it may just be that both myself and my friend were unlucky in that ours did not work properly initially. Mind you, there is a thread elsewhere on this site by MarcuSweden I think who also had this problem – and others.

Anyway, I don’t wish to put the damper on your purchase, although I think I’ve now done just that, but as someone else said on another forum elsewhere: “Treat it as a kit of parts, fettle it up, and it will be a decent little machine”. Of course, having never seen Amadeal’s equipment, I could well be completely unjustified in saying the above: he may well have sorted out these little niggles.

Good luck,

Peter G. Shaw
3 January 2012 at 18:23 #81161
David Clark 13
Participant
@davidclark13
Hi Terry

We are not available all day every day to deal with problems on the forum.

I have not received any notification from you.

regards David
3 January 2012 at 18:54 #81162
David Haynes
Participant
@davidhaynes53962
Hi folks, sorry I caused a stir with the Chronos link, they seem to have this tendency with their addresses being long. It was just before midnight and I was tired, dreading the 5am roll call with the bairn. I couldn’t edit it later for reasons discussed elsewhere Editing my own thread so thanks to David C for doing it for me.

All the best

Dave
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