What did you do Today 2018

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Thanks for the concerns.

I'm just going to watch out for any other symptoms. If I hadn't held my breath for a minute at the same time I would wonder. I felt fine 20 minutes later.

Future spraying will be outside. Funnily enough this paint smells of castor oil.

[RobinParticipant @robin]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 05/06/2018 09:46:48:

Funnily enough this paint smells of castor oil.

Ricin by Jove, have you annoyed Mr Putin?

Edited By Robin on 05/06/2018 10:03:27

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

Removed

Edited By V8Eng on 05/06/2018 10:43:45

[David Standing 1Participant @davidstanding1]

That appears to be the sympathy period ended Neil

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

My life's been made miserable by an inner-ear disorder, cause unknown. It first occurred after cleaning a filter with petrol went wrong and I soaked myself about 20 years ago, though it might be coincidental. (Good job there wasn't a spark!)

Symptoms like Neil's closely followed by Mike's experience – 2 days in bed. Since then I wake-up more-or-less sea-sick in the mornings! I rarely get to full-blown dizzyness/vomiting but I often feel unwell. That strange warning feeling you get before an actual illness declares itself. Fortunately my version is controlled – I'm usually OK unless I get overtired or ill, or drink red wine! I think I'm lucky – plenty get it much worse than me, endlessly sick. Often comes with tinnitus, on bad days I hear a sort of steaming kettle whistle about as loud as a busy main road. Again lucky – I don't find it irritating, but a friend is driven mad by his non-existent noises.

Apparently the cause can be very difficult to diagnose and even harder to fix. Often temporary due to a treatable infection but equally often not. . They think my problem may have been caused by a virus, or possibly being close to some loud noises in my youth. A common cause in older people is loose bits floating about inside the inner ear and accidentally stimulating the tiny hairs and nerve-endings that decide balance. Whatever the reason, it's horrible.

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 04/06/2018 19:47:44:

Well that was strange!

I just spray painted a small item. As its looking like rain I did the third coat indoors and held my breath as it only took a minute, but I squatted down to do it. Got up and walked out of the workshop and promptly fainted! Not unconscious, but I completely lost the ability to stay upright and just let myself down and lay on the floor for thirty seconds. Very peculiar, I still feel light-headed. I've felt woozy standing up in a hurry before, but this has never happened to me.

My daughter was totally unimpressed – says that's what they used to do in primary school.

Neil

Neil,

May I suggest one other cause, I'm type 2 Diabetic who injects Insulin and this morning I checked my sugars prior to injecting which gave a good reading but a while later during my breakfast I had a Hypo, with similar affects as you. You dont have to be diabetic to get the feeling of lightheadedness and not feeling right due to lack of food causing your sugars to drop. My Hypo lasted about forty minutes until my sugar levels to get back up.

Martin P

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by martin perman on 05/06/2018 11:30:03:

May I suggest one other cause, I'm type 2 Diabetic who injects Insulin and this morning I checked my sugars prior to injecting which gave a good reading but a while later during my breakfast I had a Hypo, with similar affects as you. You dont have to be diabetic to get the feeling of lightheadedness and not feeling right due to lack of food causing your sugars to drop. My Hypo lasted about forty minutes until my sugar levels to get back up.

Interesting thought, I tend to go slightly hypo if I eat an entire bag of sweets – a 'rebound' effect as insulin over-corrects (so I don't do that any more), but I've always tested negative for diabetes.

But I have been dieting hard for a few days to shift a few pounds that had crept back on. I've lost 4.4lbs in 8 days so low blood sugar quite possibly a contributing factor.

Neil

[fishy-steveParticipant @fishy-steve]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 05/06/2018 11:21:28:

My life's been made miserable by an inner-ear disorder, cause unknown. It first occurred after cleaning a filter with petrol went wrong and I soaked myself about 20 years ago, though it might be coincidental. (Good job there wasn't a spark!)

Symptoms like Neil's closely followed by Mike's experience – 2 days in bed. Since then I wake-up more-or-less sea-sick in the mornings! I rarely get to full-blown dizzyness/vomiting but I often feel unwell. That strange warning feeling you get before an actual illness declares itself. Fortunately my version is controlled – I'm usually OK unless I get overtired or ill, or drink red wine! I think I'm lucky – plenty get it much worse than me, endlessly sick. Often comes with tinnitus, on bad days I hear a sort of steaming kettle whistle about as loud as a busy main road. Again lucky – I don't find it irritating, but a friend is driven mad by his non-existent noises.

Apparently the cause can be very difficult to diagnose and even harder to fix. Often temporary due to a treatable infection but equally often not. . They think my problem may have been caused by a virus, or possibly being close to some loud noises in my youth. A common cause in older people is loose bits floating about inside the inner ear and accidentally stimulating the tiny hairs and nerve-endings that decide balance. Whatever the reason, it's horrible.

SOD

That really does sound like Menieres Disease.

Steve.

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

I Neil, I suffer similar problem, have always had problems with blood sugar levels, my wife makes sure I eat little and often to compensate for it. She maintains that I get quite grumpy if my blood sugar levels drop, I become aware by becoming very light headed and start shaking and sweating, if that happens I eat some sugar either just raw sugar or the glucose tablets that you can get from a pharmacy, I now keep a pack of tablets with me. Have been tested for diabetes but always negative, I am convinced that the problem is an over production of insulin which then lowers the blood sugar. I just make sure that I eat regular and if I feel it coming on I eat some sugar or glucose. Apparently eating Oats, Porridge etc is a good plan because the oats are only slowly converted to sugars within the body which tends to prevent peaks of high and low blood sugars. Your issue of dieting could very well be upsetting your body’s absorption of sugars causing low blood sugar issues.

Dave W

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Samsaranda on 05/06/2018 16:12:51:

I Neil, I suffer similar problem, have always had problems with blood sugar levels, my wife makes sure I eat little and often to compensate for it. She maintains that I get quite grumpy if my blood sugar levels drop, I become aware by becoming very light headed and start shaking and sweating, if that happens I eat some sugar either just raw sugar or the glucose tablets that you can get from a pharmacy, I now keep a pack of tablets with me. Have been tested for diabetes but always negative, I am convinced that the problem is an over production of insulin which then lowers the blood sugar. I just make sure that I eat regular and if I feel it coming on I eat some sugar or glucose. Apparently eating Oats, Porridge etc is a good plan because the oats are only slowly converted to sugars within the body which tends to prevent peaks of high and low blood sugars. Your issue of dieting could very well be upsetting your body’s absorption of sugars causing low blood sugar issues.

Dave W

Yep, that's me down to the shaky and sweaty. I only ever get it if I eat a LOT of very sugary food, which I don't since I decided to get my weight under control. On 10 August 2016 – I keep a graph, how sad is that – but I find it helps a lot, even though my belt is just as reliable!

I've found a couple of biscuits usually solves it, or a cup of tea and sit down for half an hour.

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

Neil, looks like you have the problem sussed, diet is important to maintain steady sugar levels.

Dave W

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 05/06/2018 14:34:07:

Posted by martin perman on 05/06/2018 11:30:03:

May I suggest one other cause, I'm type 2 Diabetic who injects Insulin and this morning I checked my sugars prior to injecting which gave a good reading but a while later during my breakfast I had a Hypo, with similar affects as you. You dont have to be diabetic to get the feeling of lightheadedness and not feeling right due to lack of food causing your sugars to drop. My Hypo lasted about forty minutes until my sugar levels to get back up.

Interesting thought, I tend to go slightly hypo if I eat an entire bag of sweets – a 'rebound' effect as insulin over-corrects (so I don't do that any more), but I've always tested negative for diabetes.

But I have been dieting hard for a few days to shift a few pounds that had crept back on. I've lost 4.4lbs in 8 days so low blood sugar quite possibly a contributing factor.

Neil

Neil,

Just a slight correction, if you eat a whole bag of sweets you will get Hyperglycemic, to much sugar, a Hypo means your sugars are very low, eating raw sugar is a very quick fix which will not cure the situation sot you have to follow up with food that has slow absorbsion, fruit for instance.

Martin P

[MikeParticipant @mike89748]

Martin, I was just about to make that point. My wife is an insulin-injecting diabetic, and an excess of sugar makes her feel tired, grumpy, and thirsty, but it is not so dangerous as a hypo, which requires an immediate dose of sugar. Sweet fruit juice (sweetened with sugar, not chemicals) is quite effective, and the recovery is quite rapid.

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Mike,

My wife has difficulty if I'm Hyper because she says I'm grumpy and tired most of the time and there is no obvious difference.

Martin P

[Raphael GolezParticipant @raphaelgolez]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 04/06/2018 19:47:44:

Well that was strange!

I just spray painted a small item. As its looking like rain I did the third coat indoors and held my breath as it only took a minute, but I squatted down to do it. Got up and walked out of the workshop and promptly fainted! Not unconscious, but I completely lost the ability to stay upright and just let myself down and lay on the floor for thirty seconds. Very peculiar, I still feel light-headed. I've felt woozy standing up in a hurry before, but this has never happened to me.

My daughter was totally unimpressed – says that's what they used to do in primary school.

Neil

Hi Neil, what you have experience is a classic presentation of situational syncope plus an orthostatic hypotension. I encounter this on a regular basis on my admission takes and ward rounds. Squating down will reduce the venous return of blood towards the heart thereby reducing the cardiac output and reducing blood flow to our brain. Coupled with breath holding it can exacerbate this physiologic response. Our brain does not like being starve of oxygen and once it detected poor oxygenation as a result of diminished blood flow in the cerebral circulation it will shut down and people collapse or in your case near faint or syncope in our medical terms. The other thing to consider is orthostatic hypotension where you stand from a squatting position and you classically described the whole scenario. When we quickly stand up from a squatting or sitting position especially on the ground our blood flow to our brain is diminished by roughly 500 mls. This is due to the sudden shift in position from squatting to standing, gravity is the enemy here. Since our brain is sensitive to hypoxia or low oxygenation as a result of diminished blood flow to the cerebral circulation, its again going to shut down and people faint and again in your case near fainting. There are mechanism to compensate on this, first we have our sympathetic (acute compensation) response which basically vasoconstriction of our blood vessels to maintain correct blood pressure to facilitate cerebral perfusion and the other is increased heart rate which translate to increase cardiac output thereby maintaining cerebral perfusion. All this sensing is done in our carotid bodies located in the bifurcation of our carotid artery in our neck. This is our baroreceptors that detects pressure change as a result of poor blood flow or excessive blood flow to the brain then sends signal to our heart to either slow it down or make it beat fast. But sometimes this system is faulty especially as we get old and also affected by a lot of other medical conditions (so many to mention). Chronic or long standing compensation is via a different system called RAAS or renin-agiontension system controlled by our kidneys (this is not relevant to what you have experienced).

Going back to your experience, it resolves when you laid your self down on the ground because gravity helps restore adequate blood flow and cerebral perfusion thereby regaining full brain functions. Remember that blood is liquid and behaves as one. Human physiology is fun and when I teach junior doctors on my ward rounds and I always go back to basic. I think we are all governed by physics and this not only apply to Engineering but also Physiology and how our body works. This might be boring to the rest but can't help it explaining what you have experienced and if there are other doctors here in the forum they will agree.

Raphael

Edited By RAPHAEL VAL GOLEZ 1 on 05/06/2018 21:32:27

Edited By RAPHAEL VAL GOLEZ 1 on 05/06/2018 21:33:08

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by martin perman on 05/06/2018 19:23:05:

Just a slight correction, if you eat a whole bag of sweets you will get Hyperglycemic, to much sugar, a Hypo means your sugars are very low, eating raw sugar is a very quick fix which will not cure the situation sot you have to follow up with food that has slow absorbsion, fruit for instance.

Martin P

No, I get what is called a 'sugar crash' or more correctly 'reactive hypoglycemia' which is found in non-diabetics as well as diabetics. One cause is over-correction of high blood sugar from bingeing sweeties.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactive_hypoglycemia

[Anonymous]

Posted by RAPHAEL VAL GOLEZ 1 on 05/06/2018 21:31:12:

…………………. and if there are other doctors here in the forum they will agree.

Depends what sort; last time I saw a consultant his first question was "Are you a real doctor or a medic"?

Andrew

[Raphael GolezParticipant @raphaelgolez]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 05/06/2018 22:34:26:

Posted by RAPHAEL VAL GOLEZ 1 on 05/06/2018 21:31:12:

…………………. and if there are other doctors here in the forum they will agree.

Depends what sort; last time I saw a consultant his first question was "Are you a real doctor or a medic"?

Andrew

Hi Andrew, it always helps knowing if you are discussing with a fellow doctor. You can both discuss technicalities in the field of Medicine. I often have retired consultants as my patient, I would also like to know what field of specialities they use to practice as this greatly helps. Medicine is vast, a surgeon is trained differently as compared to an internist or can be also called "medic". I assume the consultant is asking if you are in the field or medicine or paramedics, is this what you mean?

Raphael

[Martin King 2Participant @martinking2]

Raphael, you have a PM.

[Anonymous]

Posted by RAPHAEL VAL GOLEZ 1 on 05/06/2018 23:10:26:

I assume the consultant is asking if you are in the field or medicine or paramedics, is this what you mean?

Given that I'm near Cambridge he was asking if I had a Ph.D. Which is correct, and since my research topic was pulse compression radar waveform design and the processing of high bandwidth signals he didn't have anything to worry about.

Cue a load of irritating stories about how people with engineering degrees are complete numpties when it comes to practical matters, unlike the story teller…………….

When I did a summer job at RAE Bedford I was asked to get short circuit from the stores, so I went to the stores and came back with half a schematic.

Andrew

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Don't forget that the body regulates blood glucose in both directions. The objective is to maintain sufficiant blood glucose levels for current demand. Food intake is intermittant and to prevent high sugar levels after eating insulin triggers the storage of excess sugars in the liver in the form of glycogen. When blood glucose drops the hormone glycogon is produced which triggers conversion of glycogen to glucose which is released into the bloodstream. So the liver acts as a buffer to regulate blood sugar levels under control of insulin for storage and primarily glucogon (there are other hormones incuding epinepherine) to release some of the store for use in the body. Several things can go wrong. On the storage side insulin production may be compromised as in diabetes (both types). As far as retreval goes there are several pathways in humans reflecting the immidiate seriousness of lack of glucose compared to the longer term issues related to excess. The brain can only use glucose as a fuel so a maintaining availability of a minimum level of glucose is 'mission critical' and failure to do so quickly results in coma and death.

If you are going to be kind to your endocrine system and give the regulation mechanisms a chance it is better not to overload by massive consumption of sugary food over a short period of time and before high demand don't let your liver run out of stored glucagen. Translated means have a good breakfast, eat regularly and stoke up on starches before running a marathon.

regards Martin

(Non professional, but interested amateur)

Edited By Martin Kyte on 06/06/2018 09:11:14

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by RAPHAEL VAL GOLEZ 1 on 05/06/2018 21:31:12:

I think we are all governed by physics and this not only apply to Engineering but also Physiology and how our body works. This might be boring to the rest but can't help it explaining what you have experienced and if there are other doctors here in the forum they will agree.

Raphael

Thanks, Raphael I thought something like that was the cause, thanks for the full explanation.

Neil

[richardandtracyParticipant @richardandtracy]

I have always wondered why people choose to run a marathon when mechanical assistance (like a bicycle) makes it so much more energy efficient. Saw one comparison that suggested you need to cycle 18 miles to burn the same energy as walking 1 mile. Shows the efficiency improvement to me. The power required may be somewhat higher though, as the speed tends to be considerably greater.

Regards,

Richard.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 06/06/2018 08:03:08:

Posted by RAPHAEL VAL GOLEZ 1 on 05/06/2018 23:10:26:

I assume the consultant is asking if you are in the field or medicine or paramedics, is this what you mean?

Given that I'm near Cambridge he was asking if I had a Ph.D. Which is correct, and since my research topic was pulse compression radar waveform design and the processing of high bandwidth signals he didn't have anything to worry about.

As a biologist (originally!) I caused great confusion for my GP by talking about 'testes' as he was used to patients calling them 'testicles' (or more base expressions).

Now I have your attention, it was acute pain caused by an obscure and uindiagnosed sciatica-like condition that plagued me on and off from about 20 but thankfully went by 30.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by fishy-steve on 05/06/2018 15:27:42:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 05/06/2018 11:21:28:

…

Whatever the reason, it's horrible.

SOD

That really does sound like Menieres Disease.

Steve.

Yes Steve, that was favourite diagnosis at one point. Apparently not the cause though.

The best suggestion I've had is that in the past something damaged a nerve in my ear causing faulty balance info to be sent to my brain. There it disagrees with what my eyes and the other ear are saying. When I'm on top form, the brain ignores the faulty signal and I feel OK. When I get tired/drunk/off-colour, the brain takes the bad signal seriously and I 'decompensate'. In a healthy individual the most likely cause of faulty balance signals is poisoning (shouldn't have eaten those red berries), and the best thing to do is collapse in bed with a bucket.

It's only a suggestion though. There are many other causes. While it would make me feel better to put a name to it, I'm confident the various tests have eliminated all the truly nasty possibilities – I know I don't have a brain tumour! And now I know it's not something dangerous it's easier to put up with the inconvenience.

Dave

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