Swarf Trivia

[geoff walker 1Participant @geoffwalker1]

Hi All,

A little trivia if I may.

Turning a piece of 1" diameter mild steel with an indexable carbide tip tool at 300 rpm, depth of cut .030" and fine feed of 350 tpi. From this I got a continuous chip 4.2 metres long which I thought was pretty amazing.

I know, most (all?) of you will be thinking you sad B****** measuring the length of a swarf chip and you may well be right.

Oh! by the way the the finish on the work piece was perfect.

geoff

[geoff walker 1Participant @geoffwalker1]

[larry PhelanParticipant @larryphelan54019]

The wonderful works of a wheelbarrow !

[Mike E.Participant @mikee-85511]

Sad I know, but I wonder….. is there a Guinness Book world record for the longest swarf chip ?

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Perhaps if you ran the lathe faster the chip breaker on the insert would work

Beats my record, somewhere around six feet.

Neil

[Anonymous]

Posted by geoff walker 1 on 31/07/2017 15:16:55:

I know, most (all?) of you will be thinking you sad B****** measuring the length of a swarf chip and you may well be right.

Yep, we've mostly been there. Can't remember how long mine was but here it is in the hall with a 600mm rule:

I think the material was EN8. Of course eventually one grows up (if you believe that you'll believe anything) and increases the feedrate so that the chip breaker works. If nothing else it makes the sweeping up easier.

Andrew

[geoff walker 1Participant @geoffwalker1]

Hi Andrew,

Now I didn't take a picture but I did call my good wife into the hallowed ground to view it.

"Look Ann 4.2 meters long". "Very good Geoff what's it for?".

She seemed quite perplexed when I told her it was waste and was going in the swarf bin!

Geoff

[Dinosaur EngineerParticipant @dinosaurengineer]

As an apprentice in the late 50's we had a competition between ourselves to see who could cut /make the longest piece of lathe swarf. The record was about 30 metres down the isle between the large lathes in the large machine shop.The M/C shop foreman found out and we apprentices were all gathered together and given a very firm warning- dismissal if done again). I suppose it was a stupid thing to do but at the time we thought it was fun. I'm sure that had it been just one guilty apprentice he would haven sacked but firing all the apprentices would have been a step too far.

Happy days !

Edited By Dinosaur Engineer on 31/07/2017 18:00:17

Edited By Dinosaur Engineer on 31/07/2017 18:00:49

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

By professional standards you guys aren't even trying!

The brochure for my wartime built Pratt & Whitney Model B 12 x 30 has three of illustrations of steel swarf showing off what the beast can do.

One is said to be of a "lace chip" 2 inches wide, 0.00014" thick (just under one and a half tenths of a thou, 3.5 microns in metric) of more than 200 feet unbroken length.

Another is of a ribbon chip 196 feet long 1 inch wide, 0.001" (one thou) thick. I imagine the machinist doing the work was severely chastised for not managing to reach a nice round 200 feet long.

Final picture is said to be an actual size depiction of some severely chunky short chips produced during a hogging cut demonstration. Obviously the tool has a chip breaker. Depth of cut looks to be approaching half an inch. hard to say from a PDF file when you don't know the actual size of the brochure. The PDF file resolution isn't good enough to put a sample up here.

The 12 x 30 Model B was a wartime expedient machine based on the earlier plain bearing machine but upgraded with anti-friction (roller) headstock bearings to run faster. Especially when fitted, like mine, with two speed motor. The Model C replaced the old model B before the war but Niles-Bement-Pond, who owned Pratt & Whitney machine tools, couldn't make the Model C fast enough to meet demand so the old model B was given minor upgrades and put back into production.

Clive.

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

Hmm. Speeding up helps the chipbreaker on the insert work?

I’m turning a piece of aluminium just now. Using inserts designed for the task. No amount of increase or decrease in speed or feed has prevented the production of long, ribbon like, endless chips. I have got to the point where I’m just having to live with it and get on as best I can.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Carl Wilson 4 on 31/07/2017 19:36:54:
Hmm. Speeding up helps the chipbreaker on the insert work?

I'm turning a piece of aluminium just now. Using inserts designed for the task. No amount of increase or decrease in speed or feed has prevented the production of long, ribbon like, endless chips. I have got to the point where I'm just having to live with it and get on as best I can.

Ribbons may be the lesser of two evils. Turning steel hard and fast today my hands and face got spattered with smoking hot chips. OUCH! This was despite the chuck guard.

Dave

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

Deleted as Derek & Clive is possibly not the right content for this forum

Edited By Sam Longley 1 on 31/07/2017 20:35:54

[Phil H1Participant @philh196021]

Snap Dinosaur,

We did exactly the same thing. One ribbon from one end of the workshop and back. We had it heading towards the open fire doors at the end of the workshop before it failed. My estimate – I'd honestly suggest it was well over 30m long. Oh it was free cutting mild steel.

PhilH

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Can't match the best of the above, but back in about '75 I was running a big old Binns & Berry with about a 6 ft. swing for a firm that made cable reels for the Coal Board.

I had to face and bore some lengths of tube to (IIRC) about 6" I/D. I found I could get a coiled continuous chip to go back through the spindle and wriggle about on the floor. The longest one I got was about 21 feet, and bright blue. Mate of mine put it up on his wall in an intricate Escher pattern.

[Adrianna AthanorParticipant @adriannaathanor46940]

Hi,

I don't know if any of you can help me but there is always hope

I live in Ireland and attempting to get swarf for a few winter projects I've planned. It appears to be a mythological substance over here as I can't seem to get it anywhere. I would be willing to pay for copper swarf and postage of course if any of you could help, I would be most grateful. Thanks

Adrianna

[larry PhelanParticipant @larryphelan54019]

Should be able to get steel swarf easy enough,but copper swarf,now that,s a different matter !

Copper has a value,even as swarf.,no one dumps it out.

[Adrianna AthanorParticipant @adriannaathanor46940]

Hi Larry,

Nope getting any type of swarf over here is fraught with difficulty. We live in the countryside. Who could I ask to get steel swarf?

THanks

Adrianna

[Adrianna AthanorParticipant @adriannaathanor46940]

Oh,

Does anyone know where could I get get shavings from?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Do you mean wood shavings? if so try your local joinery works, We used to have our planer shavings collected by a local brewery for their horses. Or you can buy it as pet bedding.

Also what type of copper swarf do you want? long and curley or small chips and does it matter if it is dripping with cutting fluid or do you need it clean?

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

If you're in the countryside there'll likely be a local agricultural engineer with lathe(s), drill(s) and milling machine(s).

Swarf from lathes is more likely to be in continuous ribbons or coils, whereas milling machines produce short (and sometimes sharp) curled chips.

Either way you'll likely need to wash them. Copper swarf will probably be hard to find, but phosphor-bronze might be a possibility if the engineers make new bearing bushes.

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

I’ve got lots of aluminium swarf you can have if you want. Pm me if interested.

[Adrianna AthanorParticipant @adriannaathanor46940]

Hi,

Thanks to all of you for getting back to me about this. THe shavings I'm looking for are metal, preferably small chips in either phosphor bronze, copper or aluminum. And then theres postage to Southern Ireland. I don't know any agricultural engineers locally but I'll start searching now. I don't mind if it has to be cleaned. Its just the finding of it and the getting it to Ireland is the hassle.

Thanks everyone

Adrianna

[Adrianna AthanorParticipant @adriannaathanor46940]

Hi Everyone!

Just wanted to say a big thank you for all your helpful advice and suggestions…Found some precision engineering crowd about 15 miles away that throw out steel and copper swarf!!! What a great bit of good luck!

thanks again for your excellent advice

God Bless

Adrianna

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