Slip gauges from Banggood

[Robin GrahamParticipant @robingraham42208]

[Robin GrahamParticipant @robingraham42208]

A couple of questions:

1. I have never bought stuff direct from China before but I'm now looking at a slip gauge set from Banggood priced at about £70. The UK .gov website tells me that there will be no Customs Duty as the value is under £139, and VAT is payed by the seller. Another (not .gov) website tells me that China has no mechanism for paying VAT and I'll get stung for it at some point. Can anyone who has bought from Banggood advise as to what actually happens?
2. The 32 piece metric set is advertised as being grade 0 which, as I understand it, is inspection grade – sub-micron accuracy. That seems crazy for the price. I don't actually need to measure anything that closely but – well it would be nice to feel I could! When I get a temperature controlled workshop obviously. Has anyone had experience of these sets? Can they really be that good?

Robin

 

Edited By Robin Graham on 02/03/2021 03:11:25

[Steve NeighbourParticipant @steveneighbour43428]

Hi Robin,

I keep looking at stuff sold in the UK by Bangood and like you think there are some real bargains to be had ?

But the age old saying "If it seems to good to be true – it probably is" keeps popping in my mind !!

Also the often quoted long delivery times put me off, but openly admit that's my lack of patience at getting a 'new gadget' after spending ages deliberating over which one to buy !

Like you I will be interested to hear from the wise folk in here who have used Bangood for better (or worse)

Steve

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Bang good might well tell you (eventually) that their ‘grade 0’ means it doesn’t have one.🙂

It means nothing if they corrode in next to no time, or scratch easily, or are ‘not quite’ square, or etc.🙂

You pays your money and you will get what you pays for. VAT (and collection before delivery) will possibly only be another £25 – if you are lucky – or unlucky, depending on how you look at it.

If the goods are actually carp, they will likely offer you a small cash discount – but you will still be leftbwith carp in a box.

But go ahead, lets read how they compare with a decent set – as regards accuracy, tolerance, and longevity.

I’d rather you take the risk than me.🙂

Edited By not done it yet on 02/03/2021 08:04:23

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

I would look for a better set probably second hand, they are out there. I found a set, ex RR toolroom still with the calibration cert at a car boot sale for £40.00 but they are imperial and probably why they are cheep but as I have used imperial most if my working life I dosn't bother me.

David

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

I have bought various bits [milling cutters, indexable tooling etc] from Bangood & most have been okish but I would NOT buy slip gauges from them as I don't believe they would be 'as specified', just my opinion as someone who been in the engineering game for a long time.

Tony

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

There are bargans to be had when buying online but it is buyer beware. If it looks too good to be true, it's probably not true. I saw a photo of a great set of slip gauges which were adverlised as second hand but looked to be in great shape in the photo and bought it at a ridiculously low price. When it arrives it was exactly as advertised but I failed to read the advertisement coirrectly. I had bought a photo of a set of slip gauges. Grrr $$#@@**&&.

A good lesson and I'm much more careful now. I have purchase a couple of slip gauges that came with a certificate and use them for checking the accuracy of micrometers and gauges.

Paul

[HowiParticipant @howi]

Just to clarify, VAT is not collectable by sellers outside the EU, so the likelyhood is, you will not pay VAT when the goods enter the UK via China post. Despite the lead times shown for delivery, in my experience 7 – 10 days is usually the case.

A note of caution for those buying from EU sources, check you are not paying VAT twice, i.e lets say goods bought from Germany, the price quoted would have VAT of 19% added, if you are a buyer in the UK you SHOULD pay the pre German VAT price with UK 20% vat added so should only cost 1% more.

Buying goods over £139 is another ballgame all together as no VAT should be paid at supplier end but would be collected together with inport duty etc + handling fee, when goods enter UK.

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Posted by Paul Lousick on 02/03/2021 08:28:59:

There are bargans to be had when buying online but it is buyer beware. If it looks too good to be true, it's probably not true. I saw a photo of a great set of slip gauges which were adverlised as second hand but looked to be in great shape in the photo and bought it at a ridiculously low price. When it arrives it was exactly as advertised but I failed to read the advertisement coirrectly. I had bought a photo of a set of slip gauges. Grrr $$#@@**&&.

A good lesson and I'm much more careful now. I have purchase a couple of slip gauges that came with a certificate and use them for checking the accuracy of micrometers and gauges.

Paul

Are you having a laugh? I hope you got a refund???

Tony

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Robin Graham on 02/03/2021 03:11:06:

… UK .gov website tells me that there will be no Customs Duty as the value is under £139, and VAT is payed by the seller. Another (not .gov) website tells me that China has no mechanism for paying VAT and I'll get stung for it at some point. Can anyone who has bought from Banggood advise as to what actually happens?

The 32 piece metric set is advertised as being grade 0 which, as I understand it, is inspection grade – sub-micron accuracy. That seems crazy for the price. …

Robin

I think you will have to take the risk and buy one to find out!

With regard to the accuracy of the slip gauges, I've no idea how much they cost to make today. When Mr Johansson first cracked how to make them in 1896 the process was labour intensive. Grinding to size and confirming dimensional accuracy were both slow, skilled, manual processes and making gauges was expensive.

In the 1920's the UK National Physical Laboratory developed another way of making them, and no doubt other industrial nations tackled the problem too. Slip gauges got cheaper but because of the need to assure accuracy using manual methods, they were still expensive.

Today automated high-precision grinding is commonplace. Conceivably slip gauges could be mass-produced rather cheaply, not least because accuracy can be achieved directly by laser controlled machines. Or the seller could be faking them by gluing old Coke cans together!

My guess is the precision grinding is more likely than the latter, but they might not truly be Grade 0, and having them checked would cost more than the set! Does it matter? I suspect most home workshops don't need Slip Gauges which means you can buy a battered inaccurate second-hand set or an iffy new set and still be happy! In my workshop I work to about (about 0.02mm / 1 thou), which isn't demanding by tool-room standards. As my home-workshop 'gauges' only have to be slightly better than normal workshop tooling, there's no particular reason for me to go high-end.

Buying online is always a gamble, and confirming you can get your money back in the event it goes wrong is the name of the game, not fretting about 'quality'. Amazon seem to be best at refunds, ebay are mostly OK, but other overseas online sellers might not be so helpful! That said, lots of people buy successfully from Banggood, although not everyone.

Bad time to ask about Customs Duty & VAT! Three things muddy the water :

• We left the EU in January and the new border introduced new controls and extra costs. Difficult to judge exactly what's going on, but there's certain amount of turbulance at the moment, for various reasons. For example, goods destined for the UK were often consigned in an EU bound container to, say Rotterdam, and distributed freely across the EU from there. Now the UK element has to be transshipped over a border, with additional paperwork and duties etc. Likely to be a while before such Supply Chain difficulties are fixed, and importer/exporters streamline the process.
• Covid restrictions are also causing large-scale supply difficulties.
• Coincidentally in January, the UK changed the way VAT is collected on imports and altered the rules. It seems that Amazon and ebay are collecting tax correctly, but it's not clear that other sellers are! At the end of the day the customer is responsible for paying VAT, and if it's not been pre-paid by the seller on his behalf, tax might be collected on delivery plus collections charges, which can be painful. I say might because I don't believe the authorities are fully enforcing the change yet, and certainly aren't checking every package.

So its all about risk. In the worst case a dud set of goods arrive with a demand for Customs Duty, VAT and hefty handling charges. In practice most people get what they wanted most of the time and aren't whacked for more money. My daughter buys lots of stuff from abroad and although she had to cough last week that was unusual. She is careful not to buy high-value items.

Another problem at the moment is stuff not being available at all. My nephew is building a computer for me at the moment and about a third of the components ordered have resulted in 'Delayed Order Notifications'. It's not just one supplier – most of his favourite suppliers are 'Out of Stock' to some degree or other. No idea what's causing it, or if shortages are peculiar to imported computer parts.

Dave

[Anonymous]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 02/03/2021 10:10:15:

No idea what's causing it, or if shortages are peculiar to imported computer parts.

Definitely not. I'm trying to get some PCBs assembled for work and all sorts of components are suddenly unavailable or on very long leadtimes, like 26 or 52 weeks. I think inventory got used up last year and companies didn't make new stock as many places were in lockdown so it seemed that sales would be low. Now everyone is playing catch up.

Another issue is that the medical profession have failed to notice that a side effect of having Covid is incompetence. I've just ordered two items from a professional electronics distributor. One item was advised as being out of stock. Surely I wasn't daft enough to order something listed as out of stock? When I called to cancel I was told it was listed as in stock but when the picker looked in the warehouse there was no stock. Delivery of the second item can explain that. I ordered one pack of two small 12V batteries. What I got was a box of 10 packs of 2 batteries, ie, 20 batteries in total. I gave up listening to recorded messages this morning saying they couldn't answer the 'phone. So I've emailed them to ask if they want 18 of them back. If it involves more than 5 minutes of my time they can go whistle.

Andrew

[Rik ShawParticipant @rikshaw]

I have had no problems with new 123 blocks, V blocks etc from China via ArcEuro 1 or 2 tenths of a thou error here and there but more than good enough for general machining in my humble workshop. I would not be as confident though if I was chasing tenths on a surface grinder.

I did consider a set of slips from China but felt much more comfortable some years ago spending my loot on a nice set of second hand 1950's? Coventry Matrix imperial inspection grade slips from Ebay for about £60 if memory serves. For a number of years I have been keeping my eyes open for a set of (cheap) cages to go with them but no luck so far.

As for delivery times it will be interesting to see how long the magnetic V blocks ordered last week from India take to arrive.

Rik (Slip fan)

[VicParticipant @vic]

Posted by Howi on 02/03/2021 09:22:23:

Just to clarify, VAT is not collectable by sellers outside the EU, so the likelyhood is, you will not pay VAT when the goods enter the UK via China post. Despite the lead times shown for delivery, in my experience 7 – 10 days is usually the case.

A note of caution for those buying from EU sources, check you are not paying VAT twice, i.e lets say goods bought from Germany, the price quoted would have VAT of 19% added, if you are a buyer in the UK you SHOULD pay the pre German VAT price with UK 20% vat added so should only cost 1% more.

Buying goods over £139 is another ballgame all together as no VAT should be paid at supplier end but would be collected together with inport duty etc + handling fee, when goods enter UK.

I mentioned this to a friend at HMRC many years ago. At the time, the VAT in Germany was 18% and I asked if I would get a bill for the other 2% and he said it was possible but unlikely unless it was a very expensive item. The item, £800, came through without any further charges.

[Tim StevensParticipant @timstevens64731]

It would help if you could send a message to the supplier asking them to confirm that the gauges are to Grade 0 – or any other international quality standard. If they say 'Yes, all dead accurate, wonderful quality' (etc) then you have a stronger case to get your money back if the are not that good when they arrive. If you buy through e-bay or using Paypall they will act on your behalf to reclaim what you paid. I have found that the best way to ensure this is to say 'Goods have not arrived – but they did send some rubbish that I do not need' (or words to that effect). This can avoid the insistence on you sending the duff stuff back and then having to prove that it was sent and delivered.

Hope this helps

Tim

[peak4Participant @peak4]

I'd consider buying from ebay + Paypal, rather than Banggood, as there should be more recourse to a refund if it all goes pear shaped.
I think eBay should also collect the VAT on the seller's behalf.

Bill

[Pete CordellParticipant @petecordell95786]

I have used Banggood for a few items and the quality has been pretty good overall

Also with some items you can get tariff insurance so if you get hit for vat you can claim it back

That will not cover administration or handling fees

My last ordet was a MS3-22MM M12 Morse Taper Milling Collet Chuck Holder CNC Cutter Arbor £45.23

Shipping insurance: £0.90
Tariff Insurance: £1.35
Shipping Fee: £0.00
Total: £47.48

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Go for good second hand, it will be an an investment, not a cost as they will hold their value. I have 2 81 piece sets of coventry gauge slips, £30 for one and £50 the other. If you buy from china it will be a cost and the accuracy will be pot luck. Noel

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Last thing I bought from China was <£10, the courier demanded VAT and an £11 handling fee, no pay no deliver. You might get away with it on China Post, but the Royal Mail might then might demand the vat etc

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Look at your towns local Auctioneering house, I paid £50 for a nice set of imperial Coventry gauges Matrix slip gauges recently.

Martin P

[Cabinet EnforcerParticipant @cabinetenforcer]

Banggood aren't collecting the VAT yet, though AliExpress started doing so in January, interestingly I could see no way of identifying on the AliExpress package that VAT had been paid, makes me wonder if they are just keeping the cash.

[Anonymous]

FWIW, I have always found CTC Tools to be consistently value for money. They seem to source (mainly) from China but are selective about what they pick up. I've bought a number of things in the past and never been disappointed.

They have some rather inexpensive gauge blocks here

(Surprisingly inexpensive actually but personally I'd feel happier with CTC based on experience … although I'm not particularly "down" on BangGood; it's just a presenter site for independent suppliers, much like Amazon)

 

Edited By Peter Greene on 02/03/2021 18:30:42

[Robin GrahamParticipant @robingraham42208]

Thanks for replies. It seems that things are a bit murky regarding VAT on imports, at least in how the rules are implemented if not in the rules themselves.

So far as the gauges go, reading your comments and looking around further, I'm not going to buy. Too risky! They can't possibly be grade 0 by any international standard – looking at pics on the website more closely, it is possible to see the 'individual test report' for the 4mm block and the deviation is outside grade 0 for any standard I can find. They don't actually quote any standard, so perhaps the manufacturer has made up their own. They also look pretty roughly ground for precision pieces.

If I decide I really need slip gauges Cutwel do a 32 piece grade 2 (more than accurate enough for me) set for £150ish or I could splash out on a set for ~£180 from engineering-gauge.co.uk with a UKAS certificate – which they claim gives the actual size of each block within an astonishing hundredth of a micron. That's nuts – far UV wavelength, 80 iron atoms, if I've done the arithmetic right. How could they possibly do that? I must have got something wrong…

My reason for delving into this is that I have some second-hand micrometers from good stables (MW, Tesa, Mitutoyo) without setting bars and I want to check the setting. I rarely need to measure better than 0.01mm, so slip gauges are probably overkill. But – well, it would be nice to have a set.

Thanks for rescuing me from a moment of madness.

Robin.

 

Edited By Robin Graham on 03/03/2021 00:38:53

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Robin Graham on 03/03/2021 00:10:20:

[…]

How could they possibly do that? […]

.

**LINK**

https://www.npl.co.uk/instruments/gauge-block-interferometer

MichaelG.

[Author]

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