Myford Oiling

[Justin ThymeParticipant @justinthyme24678]

some advice please on the lubrication of the main bearings on this Myford Super 7

two images below.

with B D & E,  i take it you drip a thin oil (hydraulic 32) until it creates a resivoir, then repleish when it disappears ?

With ‘A’  is this oil or grease, and if it is oil, is there an oiling gun?

And is  ‘C’ just a normal greased roller bearing that is maintenance free?

And with ‘B’  what is this lubricating, the back gear spindle ?

We also have a quick change gear box on another Myford super 7.  are they easy to take off one machine and fit to another, and is the ability to cut threads worth the effort. I know that’s a bit of a silly question, it is if you need to cut threads. But is it worth while having just in case.

[peak4Participant @peak4]

All of those points are the same oil, I use 20 weight hydraulic oil; none are grease nipples
Yes you need an oil gun for the oil nipples, and to prevent leaks, it helps to pump through a single layer of paper towel.
The front bearing C id lubed via a wick from B
Backgear spindle lube you’ve not shown, there is a separate oil nipple in the middle of the engagement lever’s pivot, just below the spindle nose, and perhaps obscured by the chuck.
The 4 step V pulley also has an oil nipple, don’t forget that one either.
It should all be covered in the manual, which is available from Myford, or readily viewable on line.
If you have Facebook, join the Myford Lathes group. where you will find a wealth of information in the files section.

Bill

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Right Justin, 10w or iso 32 is the oil you use for these points a normal hydraulic oil! Point C should not be there ! A is a pair of angular contact ball races, B is the tapered bronze front bearing, D & E are bushes ! B,D, &E just fill em up with a pump feed oil can. The oil gun for A is often a leaking pain ! A and the other nipples will be better as will the slideways with 30W or iso 68 a mineral car engine oil.

If you have a quick change gear box it is worth using as it makes powerfeed changes so much easier. There are differences so some home work may be needed at lathes. co. Earlier boxes had non hardened gears and there was I believe a change in design and threads. It uses a different leadscrew but you can adapt the one you have by shortening it.

NEVER use the back gear as a spindle lock to undo tight chucks There is a proper spindle lock on the left behind the bearing that locks into the back of the 4 step pulley. Hope this helps, Noel.

[Justin ThymeParticipant @justinthyme24678]

Oil never leaves ‘B’  does the wick fail, can it be removed / replaced

What type of oil gun do I need.   are the oil nipples 2BA ?   are these oil guns really £40

 

never been on facebook

[peak4Participant @peak4]

I use one of these, which works fine, and one of these

If not a Facebook user, try the Groups.io for Myford
who also have a files section.
You can remove and replace the wick by removing the main spindle, but you really do need to read the manual.
It shouldn’t consume too much oil; you should see a feint ring around where the spindle goes through the bush behind the chuck.
As well as the official manual, it might be worth picking up a copy of this too; there’s plenty of other sources, some cheaper, some dearer

Myford Series 7 Manual

Bill

 

[Chris CrewParticipant @chriscrew66644]

“We also have a quick change gear box on another Myford super 7.  are they easy to take off one machine and fit to another, and is the ability to cut threads worth the effort.”

I have never had a gearbox on my ML7R, initially because I couldn’t afford one but found I really don’t want one. The reason being that I have needed to cut worms and the cutting of ‘strange’ pitches is easier using change-wheels although I am useless at calculating gear trains and have to beg for help if a particular train is not given in a constructional article. A full set of Myford change-wheels gives most of the standard pitches, an additional 21T gear will allow a range of metric threads to be cut and it doesn’t take long to set up a gear train.

BTW, I have been engaging the back-gear to remove chucks on my lathe for the last 40-plus years simply because its easier and quicker than fiddling around with the spindle lock. If a chuck won’t move with a ‘gentle-sharp’ pull on a makeshift lever placed across the jaws then there is something very wrong with the thread in the back-plate. Oh, and the plastic Myford oil-gun is practically useless, avoid!

[Martin of WickParticipant @martinofwick]

This is a reliable oiler. Don’t bother with myford or other vintage oil squirters. You will get more oil on yourself than into the machine.

https://www.pressparts.co.uk/pump-gun-with-2-nozzles-for-oil-150ml-c2x35994804

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Hi Chris, That you use the back gear as a means to lock the spindle is possiblly because the ML7R does’nt have a fitted lock ? That you have got away with it is good ! The OP is I believe new to lathes and more so the Myfords and since I had had an S7 for over 10 years before I found my spindle lock, I felt it would be useful for him to know if he didn’t already ! I have 3 S7s all bought second hand,2 in a sorry state and having the back gears with teeth missing ! ME or MEW published an article sometime ago on a repair for this problem writen by me with help from Chris Robinson. Noel.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

With Chris Crew’s luck, he should back horses!

I’ve replaced / made replacement gears for a now departed friend who used back gear to lock the spindle.

I prefer ti use the inertia of the motor (via the belt) whilst giving a sharp tug to the chuck (If need be by hitting the ned of a bar placed between the chuck jaws.  Alternatively put hexagon bar in in a 3 jaw, square in a 4 jaw, and apply a spanner of socket on a power bar.

Definitely, only oil, never grease (Dries out and solidifies!)

The Myford oil gun ensures that nothing rusts, but puts very little oil where wanted, in my experience.

Buying a Reilang improved matters, (Both lubrication and oil useage)

Howard

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Re Back gears for locking Myfords,
OP has one or more Super 7s, so there isn’t a need for using the back gear to lock the spindle; they have a locking bolt built in on the left hand end.
I would suggest it’s fine anyway if the chuck is only hand tight; it’s when the chuck is stuck that damage occurs.

Re gearbox, it depends on the proposed usage for the machine.
Beware there are Mk1 & 2 gearboxes, with differing drive ratios.
The Mk1 might be a problem if the OP plans to cut metric threads, as the 33/34 tooth approximations won’t work with the earlier box.

If OP plans to cut splines etc, then changewheels might be more versatile.
Personally I have both options, as a non power x-feed S7 without box, and a Warco 720 S7B clone with box.
I use the Warco more often.

Bill

[mgnbukParticipant @mgnbuk]

We also have a quick change gear box on another Myford super 7. are they easy to take off one machine and fit to another, and is the ability to cut threads worth the effort.

I didn’t find the gearbox difficult to fit & align when I upgraded my S7 to an S7B (non PXF version). The leadscrew is different, but IIRC the changewheel leadscrew can be modified, though I treated mine to a new leadscrew & half nuts from the Myford Spares Counter in Beeston as they were not too expensive at the time & my original screw and nuts were worn. There is a Myford manual specifically for the QCGB that gives installation instructions as well as opertaing information. A .pdf version is available here.

A .pdf version of the S7 manual giving lubrication details is available here

Only worth the effort WRTY to selecting threads if you mainly cut Imperial threads – Metric still requires the use of changewheels in conjunction with the gearbox. As stated above, I found mine more useful for the ability to quickly swap feedrates – 3 can be selected just by moving the top plate lever which operates on a X1, X2 & X4 basis according to the position of the lower lever. I usually have mine set to give 0.002″, 0.004″ & 0.008″ per rev.

Nigel B.

[Charles LamontParticipant @charleslamont71117]

If the oil level at B never goes down then you have a problem. If you top the cup up to the brim you should see the level drop at least a little. It may well not use much, but it must use some. If not, then the bronze bush front bearing is going to suffer.

Making sure the oil cup and passage are not blocked would be good first step, because replacing the felt wick is a spindle-out job.

You also have to remove the back-gear lever. Behind it is a socket grub screw plugging a hole. On re-assembly you have to poke a sewing needle up that hole to hold down the spring loaded wick so that you can put the spindle back in without trapping the wick.

 

[John PurdyParticipant @johnpurdy78347]

Justin

Like most people I gave up on the Myford oil gun almost immediately and modified a normal pump oil gun by soldering a brass adapter on to the end of the spout as in the pictures below.  The end is contoured down to a diameter that just fits into the oil nipple and is drilled #60, then a small slot is filed in the end. In use the end is pressed into the oil nipple, sealing on the conical end, pushing the ball down and when the oil gun is pumped the oil flows in through the small filed slot. No mess.

John

 

 

[Justin ThymeParticipant @justinthyme24678]

Many thanks for all the replies – lots to think about.

But first things first, how do I establish if the wick is working ?
I have filled the cup up to brim full with a 32 hydraulic oil,  and after two days it is still brim full.  I have run the lathe for a few minutes and the level does not change.

Don’t want to run the lathe for half an hour to see if that alters the level, and bugger the bearing because the wick is not working.

 

[mgnbukParticipant @mgnbuk]

You won’t see the cup level drop visibly in such a short time. When I check mine, the cup initially appears full, but adding several drops from an oil can the level doesn’t change much, then the level raises sightly to be just proud of the top of the cup. Close the cover & that will be fine for another several hours running. This isn’t a pumped or recirculating system – the wick just keeps the bearing “wet”.

The only way to check the wick is to remove the spindle. To check the oiling, check under the headstock area / top of the raising block – this is a “total loss” system & on my “Beeston OIl Leak” the lost oil works its way out to accumulate here.

Nigel B.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

The terms used for the oil are from 2 different systems ISO and SAE both refering to viscosity, other info will be about the aplication or addatives. ISO 32 is a light hydraulic as is SAE 10. ISO 68 and SAE 30 is most commonly (now) a classic engine oil, both are mineral oils. Modern synthetic oils are not only expensive but not designed for this type of work. Since the OP mentioned a quick Change gear box the oil for this is SAE 30 or ISO 68 NOT EP 90 ! Noel.

[noel shelley]

On noel shelley Said:

The terms used for the oil are from 2 different systems ISO and SAE both refering to viscosity,

the one we bought was ISO32  a very very thin oil.  I think it is the correct one

I notice the 3 phase motor has an oiling cup for both bearings – would I use the same oil for that ?

 

On mgnbuk Said:

You won’t see the cup level drop visibly in such a short time. When I check mine, the cup initially appears full, but adding several drops from an oil can the level doesn’t change much, then the level raises sightly to be just proud of the top of the cup. Close the cover & that will be fine for another several hours running. This isn’t a pumped or recirculating system – the wick just keeps the bearing “wet”.

The only way to check the wick is to remove the spindle. To check the oiling, check under the headstock area / top of the raising block – this is a “total loss” system & on my “Beeston OIl Leak” the lost oil works its way out to accumulate here.

Nigel B.

By ‘total loss’ system, do you mead what goes in will come out?  So I should see some emerge from the bearing ?  not sure exactly where you meant by “headstock area / top of the raising block”

should I try running it for half an hour unloaded at half speed, to see if the level at the cup changes ? and anything emerges around the bearing?

 

[mgnbukParticipant @mgnbuk]

By ‘total loss’ system, do you mead what goes in will come out?

Yes – hence my reference to my “Beeston Oil Leak” ! In my epxerience, Myford S7s are oily machines –  maybe I go overboard, but I don’t get through huge quantities of oil. All the oil you apply to this machine will eventually end up in the coolant / swarf tray.

So I should see some emerge from the bearing ?

Not necessarily. If you could see some oil coming out whilst running, it will probably be inside the headstock at the rear of the bearing – from memory oil moves through a tapered bearing from the large end to the small end. Bear in mind that the felt wick is smaller than you might expect. I knew I had a new spare wick somewhere & found it whilst in the garage just now. It is only around 1/4″ diameter at the end that contacts the spindle (around 3/16″ diameter in the section that sits inside the contact spring) & the oil flows by a wicking action through the dense felt. You will not (and should not) see large quantities of oil emerging from anywhere after the short runs you are doing. This is what the wick looks like as a spare part

not sure exactly where you meant by “headstock area / top of the raising block”

The area underneath the bed beneath the headstock casting, where the bed casting sits on the raising block that sits on the coolant / swarf tray – where you would reasonably expect that oil would drip out from the vicinity of the front spindle bearing.The headstock casting is open where it bolts to the bed & the bed is also hollow / open, so any oil that esacpes within the headstock area works its way out there.

I have my stand & coolant tray angled sllightly towards the headstock end so that coolant (if I used it) would tend to flow towards the coolant outlet at that end of the tray – the lathe sits level on the raising blocks. Used oil (know as “tramp oil” in industry) on my machine thus tends to flow towards that end of the machine & I have a couple of sheets of kitchen roll there to mop up the oil – this gets changed a coouple of times a year (maybe ! ).

Did you have a read through the S7 manual I linked to – lubrication is covered there.

HTH

Nigel B.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

DO NOT oil the motor ! On the Non Drive end it will find it’s way into the centrifugal switch and spoil it. A VERY small amount of grease is all that should be used – or none at all ! Yes ISO 32 is a light /thin oil fine for most oil can jobs about the workshop. In most cases ANY oil is better than none if the works are dry ! Find someone with a classic car and buy a cupful of engine oil, SAE 30 and you will have both the oils you need. Noel.

[Les RileyParticipant @lesriley75593]

My drip tray has a permanent film of oil on it from the gradual passage of oil through the various bearings.

If you look inside the belt cover there is a sheen of oil from the various bearings running down the castings underneath them.

I use slideway 68 all round on my machine. If I used 32 grade I would be awash!

[mgnbuk]

On mgnbuk Said:

 

Did you have a read through the S7 manual I linked to – lubrication is covered there.

HTH

Nigel B.

Yes and thankyou, we got a few books and manuals with the lathe, and they included the lubrication diagrams. I’m still finding my way around it and trying to be careful considerate with anything I touch

Still unsure with this bearing and if it is getting properly lubed

On noel shelley Said:

DO NOT oil the motor ! On the Non Drive end it will find it’s way into the centrifugal switch and spoil it. A VERY small amount of grease is all that should be used – or none at all ! Yes ISO 32 is a light /thin oil fine for most oil can jobs about the workshop. In most cases ANY oil is better than none if the works are dry ! Find someone with a classic car and buy a cupful of engine oil, SAE 30 and you will have both the oils you need. Noel.

Its a 3 phase so shouldn’t be a switch to contaminate.  have read elsewhere to just use a few drops once in a very long while.  (they have built in these oil cups for a reason)    and I guess from how the motor was position it may have never ever had a drop of oil.   I think I will add 5 drop of iso32 to each tube and then leave for many a year.

SAE30 is also 4 stroke lawn mower oil.  (and it works well on my push bike chain, the ISO32 is far too thin) its a good thickish oil

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

Any oil is better than none!

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

To Bernard , in MOST cases ! Oh dear, sorry Justin I had failed to note a 3Ph motor, Most modern motors do not have lube points as it was found un nesscesary, the so called sealed for life ! As to sae 30 being thick ish, it’s thicker than 10w but not really if one looks at sae 140 or 220. From all of the above I trust you now have the information you need. Good Luck. Noel.

[mgnbukParticipant @mgnbuk]

Still unsure with this bearing and if it is getting properly lubed

Sounds to me that you are convincing yourself that there is a problem here. In that case – for your peace of mind – there is no real option other than pulling the spindle to inspect the condition of wick. If you choose to do this, then it would also be a good time to replace the spindle drive belt.

But, in reality, if you are using the correct oil as specified in the manual, it is probably working as Myford intended. From the sectional drawing on Page 19 is apparent that the wick contact point on the spindle taper is above the level in the oil port. The only way for the spindle plain bearing to be oiled is by oil drawn up the small diameter dense felt wick. The oil needs to be thin to be drawn up the wick in the way Myford intended – using thicker than recommended oil here could actually reduce the amount of oil reaching the bearing. The wick will not be able to supply a large quantity of oil so you will not see large volumes of oil deposited anywhere when the spindle is running.

Myford’s recomendation in the manual is to replenish the oil cup twice daily. I would expect that be for a machine in continuous use throughout the day. I replenished the oil cup on my lathe yesterday to see what it took. The machine has been stood since before Xmas & the oil meniscus was concave & just below the top surface of the cup. It took 6 or 7 drops from an oil can for the level to rise to the point that the meniscus was just convex, which is about what it always takes. I expect that I will be cleaning those 6 or 7 drops out of the swarf tray at some point, even with the lathe just standing, but will take several days (maybe more).

Myford built a lot of Super 7s over a very long period. As tales are not rife of widespread front bronze bearing problems with these machines, there would not appear to be much wrong with the oiling method employed if used as recommended. I would just get on with using it, topping up the oil cup with the recommended grade of oil at the recommended interval and see how you get on. At higher speeds it is not unusual for the front of the headstock casting (surrounding the bronze bush) to warm up, but getting too warm to touch could well be as much a bearing adjustment issue as a lubrication issue – the manual covers this adjustment in detail should the need arise.

Nigel B.

[Martin of WickParticipant @martinofwick]

pulling the spindle to inspect the condition of wick…. or replace, as they seem to get glazed over time at the end pressed against the bearing and fail to wick effectively. Symptoms being no change of oil level in the cup even after a few sessions of use.

Really not difficult to do, even I managed it but you will need some appropriate allen keys and C spanners(as I recall). I think there is a method set out in the manual to re-install spindle with suitable clearances.

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