Metals supplies and tools

[DMBParticipant @dmb]

Sometime ago I complained about Brighton being pretty much useless for model engineering purposes. Now ‘the last man standing’ has gone. Dockerills in Church St. We’ve lost Banfields,Brown’s, Bennetts, Airds, Dockerills and one or 2 others whose names escape me.

Sussex Tools still exist near West Worthing Station but they don’t seem to stock a lot of anything. They will take an order for supply in a few days.About 20-25 mile trip each way, then have to go back to collect.

As I previously said, delay project, order for collection from next exhibition and not many of them either now. Detour to collect on say, holiday travel. Most expensive option, buy mail order and stuff nearly doubles in price due to postage.

No wonder Americans seem fond of a ‘Bill of Materials.’ Perhaps that’s the way to go. Make detailed list, deduct items held in stock then decide which method of acquiring the rest.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

I don’t know why you are moaning about one town. Only a dozen towns ever had an ME supplier on the doorstep and now only half a dozen do. Even then some of the well known names stock(ed) only tools and no materials to use them on and others had materials and not even a tap and die.
Only a few cities like Birmingham ever had everything readily available within a bus ride. And if you live in a small country town, let alone a village you will lucky to find a bit of 2×4 timber (at 25% premium) for sale. So unless you can make it out of pig wire from the farmer’s merchant hope the lucky recipient of your DHL delivery asks who it was meant for.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

It is always going to be more costly buying in dribs and drabs. Even driving as you mention is going to use a fair bit of petrol.

Many suppliers postage is based on weight so you may pay just as much postage for 5kg as you would for 1kg so makes sense to think ahead and get a batch of materials in one go. For example I put in an order with M-machine for the specific metal to make my recently completed A J Weed engine and I also included the metal for the current MTB and a few items for stock. Paid one lot of postage not two.

I also keep a running list of anything that I am starting to run low on which then gets added to the next materials/cutter order.

But there will always be that item you missed or a cutter/drill that gets damaged and you don’t have a spare in stock but hopefully they are small items and postage will be less than a bit of petrol.

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

You should try living in the sticks for a while, then you would know all about finding ANYTHING , never mind that “special” piece of stuff you want !!

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, I agree with Larry, everywhere is a car journey for me, unless I want a first class walk or a push bike ride, the nearest general small shop/PO is a five mile round trip, and the nearest bus stop is a mile and half away. there are no metal stockists for our type of work, anywhere close, and tool suppliers are really only general purpose tools, which are a ten mile round trip, even the nearest pub is a five mile round trip, and for much of the journey to any main road there is no footpath at all, and many lorries and large vans use the narrowish road very often. One thing I do have though, is MOT/car service centre, just down the road, which is about a ten minute walk away.

Regards Nick.

[DMB]

On 4 June 2025 at 22:48 DMB Said:

…No wonder Americans seem fond of a ‘Bill of Materials.’ Perhaps that’s the way to go. Make detailed list, deduct items held in stock then decide which method of acquiring the rest.

Big projects have always been organised by making a detailed list of what’s needed, deducting items in stock, and then deciding how to acquire the rest.  The technique pre-dates the pyramids.  Whilst Americans deserve credit for finessing BOMs in the computer age,  similar ideas where developing in Japan and Europe at the same time.  ERP, JIT etc etc.

I’m lucky enough to have a metal-shop within an hour’s drive, but they don’t stock everything.  So:

• For convenience, I keep a selection of common stock sizes in Brass, Steel, Aluminium and a little Bronze, Graphite and engineering plastics.   Not cheap, spent nearly £300 replenishing it in the new year.
• Usually cheaper for me to buy locally to keep transport costs down but I check!  Buying online in bulk and having it delivered becomes competitive as the weight rises.   Last time I bought Bronze, not available locally, I added a lot of ordinary metal to bring the weight up!  If forced to buy online, avoid buying dribs and drabs!
• Before starting a project,  I always identify what’s needed and where I might get it from.  Materials and tools are both listed: it’s a BOM.  Simple projects can be done on the back of envelope, bigger ones are better done with a spreadsheet, and 3D CAD will usually generate a BOM automatically.  At work, projects often required a database – spreadsheets are excellent up to a certain size and complexity, then they become clunky.

Working from a BOM doesn’t solve all my problems.   Just failed miserably to restart a project because some vital components are missing, lost in my mismanaged storage system.  Last year, they were put in a box for safety…

🙁

Dave

 

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

We are lucky, in that having some industry around the city, most materials and tools are still available.

Cromwell tools have departed and two tool suppliers have merged into one, but fasteners, and a limited range of tools are available. Although the two steel stock holders are set up to feed industry, they will sell to individuals, at a price, even if it sometimes means cutting the three metre lengths with hacksaw beside the car!

You can get some material from B&Q, but a very limited range and seemingly more costly

There is a better DIY shop in another town, some 12 miles away.

How I miss buying what I want at Shows!

Howard

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

I find it hard to believe that there is not a small engineering company within 10 miles of anybody and most times if you walk in with a drawing in your hand and ask a few questions, help and materials seem to appear, dont forget the tea kitty. Yes and I live in what’s known as the sticks.

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

Hi Nicholos, seems like we have a lot in common on this issue !

Bernard, yes there are a few small such places around, but I tend to have more and better stock myself than they do. Mostly what they use is rough black sections, and stock only enough for their own needs, they are NOT suppliers and let you know it. They dont want to be bothered by people like us looking for bits of this and that and something like brass or bronze or even Ali is out of the question, so that,s not the answer.

Any REAL suppliers are in Dublin, 60 miles away and most of them will sell only full lengths, 3 0r 6 mts, take it or leave it. I did find one who will sell small pieces, but then he deals in many special steels too, but at least he will do his best to oblige, others dont want to know. Brass and bronze ect, I have no idea where to start looking.

Only this very morning, one of my nabours came looking for a simple split link to join a chain. He asked me to drive him into town to get one, I said, I wish you luck, but let,s go. Needless to say we did not get one in town after wasting an hour or more, so we had to make a 20 mile round trip to get a simple chain link ! and you talk about suppliers !

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

The common complaint of remoteness from suppliers is becoming appropriate to more and more things, even even ordinary domesticalia apart perhaps from food and cleaing products… assuming the nearest nebula of supermarkets have not destroyed everything else with ten miles of it.

One aspect that may be worth investigating if you are in a club is sharing larger-scale purchases, provided all those involved accept that this may result in turning more electricity to swarf from over-sized stock than if able to buy the finished size.

Similarly with consumables like oils. Indeed that could even be a service to members, selling refills of their containers at a small profit to the club.

Share purchasing if you can, if buying small items like tools. If you are placing an order for a bof of carbide tips and and a vernier, ask if anyone else in the club wants anything from the same seller. Be careful not to be lumbered with a workshop-full though!

Bear in mind how and where bulky items like 25l oil drums and long lengthsof steel will be delivered. The supplier won’t thank you for expecting a blooming great lorry to navigate a cramped housing estate: he is used to visiting properly set-out factories.

 

Don’t forget that although the finished dimensions on a mild-steel component may be to fine limits and surfaces, it may be possible to machine it from hot-rolled material, and there your choice of suppliers may be larger by retailers to builders and farmers.

I bought the steel for steam-wagon chassis and workshop’s travelling-hoist from such a stoskist, and ironically that is located in a small village in a very rural area some twenty miles from my suburban home! I did not begrudge the round-trip fuel, nor the cutting to lengths charges so it would fit my car – but I did ensure I collected the bar ends which after all, I had bought as well!

 

B&Q sells only a limited range of steel sections, and aluminium sections and sheets; not cheaply, and the steel’s quality is better for its intended areas of use than for precision-engineering.  It can be used but you need measure its nominal sizes carefully: the ferrous-something rod labelled 6mm diameter, was actually 1/4″ – and had coarse drawing-ribs along it. I could still use it, but with some additional care.

 

This does show that sometimes purchasing by personal collection may be the most economical way. No-one says it will be cheap whichever methods you use, but if collecting personally might cheaper and simpler than arranging a delivery. And it will arrive intact, on time, at the correct address!

The more difficult materials: cast-iron, copper alloys, small sections, fittings and fixings, etc., and specialist tools, were probably never stocked locally to most model-engineers.

 

How far would you expect to travel to collect? Only you can decide that, having regard to the nature of the journey as well as fuel cost. You might be able to plan the journey within another to reduce the miles, such as a holiday or visit to some point of interest, or family.

The furthest I have driven specifically, and back, in one day; was from South Dorset to near King’s Lynn; but that was to collect lathe spares as well as materials, from a private seller reducing his collection. (The seller had advertised on this Forum!)

In the end… Use “Our” Retailers, keep them in business.

[Stuart Smith 5Participant @stuartsmith5]

Some online suppliers offer free postage if your order is over a certain value, so it is worth ordering more for stock to save on postage costs.

Stuart

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