J&S 540 help

[David ColwillParticipant @davidcolwill19261]

Hi,

I have a Jones and Shipman 540. I did have a copy of the manual but can't find it. I seem to remember that the wheelhead should heat up to about 68 degrees c when running. Mine is much cooler than this and I wonder whether I should be adjusting the bearings. I should also point out that it is the standard head and not the roller bearing one.

Could anyone confirm the figure of 68 degrees and does anyone know the procedure for adjusting the bearings?

Finally if anyone has a pdf of the manual I would be eternally grateful.

Thanks in advance.

David.

[David ColwillParticipant @davidcolwill19261]

[Mark CParticipant @markc]

Me too!

Mark

PS. I think 68F sounds about right too me also (I assume measured in a normal workshop temp)

[Peter NeillParticipant @peterneill47196]

It's the oil temperature, not the wheelhead temperature, and it's either 62c or 38c above ambient. This is of course on plain bearing heads such as you have. Switch on and let it run it for an hour before you measure.

The thrust load adjustment is done by putting a screwdriver through one of the pulley holes and loosening off the 3 screws,then rotating the thrust ring clockwise to take up any slack. Clearance/float should be 0.0004"/0.01mm measured with the wheelhead cold.

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

My 540 P has the sealed for life ball bearing spindle,I do have the manual which shows both wheel heads , The plain bearing spindle states Normal running temperature is 68 degrees F ABOVE ambient temperature, or at 143 F whichever is the lower. Though I would assume this applies when the machine is in use over whole day, not a few minutes to grind a parallel.

The correct bearing clearance can be tested by measuring spindle end float ,when cold the float should be four tenths of a thou. If its close to this figure I would leave well alone, you are in the realms of very precise machinery.

To Adjust the thrust ring,insert a screwdriver thro one of 2 holes in the pulley,and slacken off the 3 screws in the inner thrust ring,Rotate thrust ring by using the screwdriver or a tommy bar ,clock wise to tighten,tap end of spindle to settle the thrust bearing then check spindle clearance,thats what the book says.

hope this helps

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Sorry for the hi-jack but if anyone has a copy of the wheel arbor taper I would appreciate it because I have two old generic wheels here [ read of no worth ] but they are on balanced arbours and I'm guessing they are 540 from where they came from but have nothing to check.

Obviously the arbours are worth far more than the wheels.

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

I believe the 540 spindle runs on a mixture of oil and paraffin. I don't remember the mix but it could have been 10% paraffin and 90% oil. We did not have to adjust the bearings in 10 years of continuous use and we were working to a tolerance of 6 tenths of a thou measured over 4 components back to back.

[Mark CParticipant @markc]

John,

I need some extra hubs for mine – figured I'd make 'em so will be drawing the business end of the spindle in near future (along with the hub I have). If I remember and you are still needing the information I will send it.

Mark

[David ColwillParticipant @davidcolwill19261]

Hi,

Thanks for the replies. I will look at it tomorrow and report back.

John, I have a spare shaft with the taper on that you can borrow to check.

David, yes you are right about the oil.

Mark, if you do draw ur the arbours I would like a copy of your drawings.

Thanks.

David

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

My 540 manual ,dated 1966 states that the spindle oil is Mobil Oil Co Velocite no 3 . might take a bit of investigation to find what the modern equivalent is or indeed if there is one. There is no mention of diluting oil with paraffin.

[David ColwillParticipant @davidcolwill19261]

Hi,

On the wheel guard of my machine it says oil with Mobil velocite no 5 (I think) 90% and kerosene 10%. I will have a better look tomorrow.

Regards.

David.

[Marcus BowmanParticipant @marcusbowman28936]

I have a 540 and the manuals (skinny things, but useful for their purpose). The lubrication is listed as:

Propulsion – Mobil Vacuoline 1405 (now VACTRA 1, viscosity 32)

Oil nipples – Mobil Vacuoline 1409 (now VACTRA 2, viscosity 68

Spindle (Note: Plain bearing spindle) – Mobil Velocite 6 (equivalent is ISO 10, but I have never used that). Mix, as stated on the wheel guard, is 50% Velocite 6 and 50% kerosene. J&S can still supply this mixture (or could a few years ago), but it is easy enough to mix. I think the kerosense just thins the oil. That's a different mix to David's machine, but perhaps the difference is in the viscosity of the grade of oil.

I have just fitted a new grinding wheel and need to balance it. I need to know the slope of the taper in the wheel hub, so that I can make a balancing mandrel. Does anyone know the actual figure?

I would also like to know why there are three balance weights on each of my hubs, instead of two, The J&S manual only mentions two, and gives the simple procedure for balancing using two weights. I feel sure there is some logic behind three weights, but need to know how they are used to balance the wheel, in a practical procedure.

Marcus

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

I have operated J&S 540 and 1400 machines for 50 years and never found the need to balance wheels even in a high precision tool room. We set the three weights at 120 degrees mounted the wheel to the arbour and fully dressed the wheel all over. We did have the balancing kit but after dressing never had to alter anything, we had 11 1400 machines and 4 540s each had 10 or more wheel arbours to leave wheels mounted up as much as possible. We used optidress wheel forming and work was checked by shadograph at up to 100 to 1. All in one of the top tool rooms in the UK.

[hthParticipant @hth]

The J&S 540 operators manual is available on UK EBAY for ten of your UK pounds , the parts book is eight quid . Dont know what years or variants of the 540 the books are for . Was the 540 made into the 1990's ? It must have been about the longest production run for a grinder , beginning around 1940 . re: the oil, seems that Shell Morlina is the most suitable .

Edited By hth on 16/12/2015 10:35:10

Edited By hth on 16/12/2015 10:37:05

[Marcus BowmanParticipant @marcusbowman28936]

Thanks, Chris. That echoes other statements I have seen about not needing to balance wheels of 8 inches or less. Interestingly, the three weights on the hub which was fitted to the machine were not at 120 degrees, and I assumed that was because the positions had been altered to bring the assembly into balance. The performance of the wheel suggested that was not the case, and that the wheel assembly was out of balance. I shall try the 120 degree approach, with confidence.

Marcus

[hthParticipant @hth]

I have the parts book for the 1950's model but most the pages are water damaged

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

We never found the need to balance wheels and we were grinding to 0.0006 measured over four components. I think our 540 only took a maximum of 6" wheels.

What we did do was to dress the wheel and then relieve the diameter of the wheel about 0.010 deep so it was about 3/16" wide.

The main wheels we used were A46K5V and A60K5V. Occasionally we used A80K5V but these tended to burn on most work.

To dress the magnetic chuck (brass/steel) the best wheel was a Silicon Carbide wheel.

Soluble oil was a green liquid, very much like washing up liquid, and mixed about 100:1.

It was very slippery to the touch.

Edited By David Clark 1 on 24/12/2015 17:58:57

[Mark CParticipant @markc]

David, what material were you grinding?

Mark

[hthParticipant @hth]

Hi

 

Being a new J&S 540 owner myself , what would be the modern equivalent of the oil used in the main hydraulic system ? The head spindle bearings use a special oil I believe …. which is different to the main hydraulic system and its motor driven pump . I have read that Shell Morlina is the modern oil for the head spindle .

 

 

Mike

 

 

 

Edited By hth on 25/12/2015 09:46:01

[hthParticipant @hth]

The J&S in the sun….. its been a warm day , close to 100F

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

Does anyone run their 540 off a static three phase converter, I have surface finish problems with my grinder and think it may be down to the converter,as I never had problems when I used a 540 at work many years ago.

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi Mark C mostly steel, a lot of it hardened to rockwell 55c I think. All hardened sewing machine components. Silicon carbide was good for cast iron.

[Christopher MurphyParticipant @christophermurphy47367]

I have a J & S 540 with sealed for life ball bearings. I am having problems with finish even though I dress the wheels, I am getting ripple on surface. I have tried several different wheels but is always the same. I do not have a balancer.. I have a very old Churchill about same size but never had this problem.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Hello Christopher

Welcome to the forum.

This is an old-ish thread, if you don't get a reply soon it might be worth starting off a new thread to re-ask your question.

Neil

[Mike JayParticipant @mikejay85687]

Hi

would anyone like to share the manuals for the 540 with me. Would be much appreciated.

thx

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