Ideal Beginners Lathe?

[Philip MaleParticipant @philipmale12384]

New to the forum and model engineering although I have been a model aircraft builder and flyer for over 30yrs…… I am looking for a Lathe/mill combination and would appreciate your thoughts on what would be suitable….. I am looking at and being swayed towards the Clarke CL500M lathe/mill/drill combination from MachineMart, especially as they are doing it at a VAT free price at the moment.

Your thoughts are appreciated…… Phil

[Philip MaleParticipant @philipmale12384]

[mick70Participant @mick70]

i have the cl430 lathe.

needs bit of fettling to get it just right but as done everything i have ever asked apart from screw cutting as its lowest speed is way to fast.

[Steve WithnellParticipant @stevewithnell34426]

Personally, I'd stick with a straight lathe. The milling capability you get from the combination machines is pretty poor and a bit of a gimmick, compared to a seperate mill. In any event, you can do some milling on a lathe with a vertical slide.

[Anonymous]

Phil: Welcome to the forum.

Personally I wouldn't have a lathe/mill combination machine as a gift. There are too many compromises, especially on the milling function. You would be better off with a straight lathe and mill using the cross slide along with a vertical slide. And ideally, in time, a separate lathe and milling machine.

Andrew

Edit: Too sloooooooow on the old typing!

Edited By Andrew Johnston on 16/07/2016 20:34:48

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

If you just want it to do things for your model aircraft the combi will be fine, I'm sure you have read RCM&E, Alex Whittaker who writes for that mag has the same machine and has even built glow engines on it.

I started with a Unimat 3 with the milling attachment and it served my RC buggy hobby well and also made steam engines on it. A separate lathe and mill is easier in the long run if you want to do a lot of ME projects but not essential.

J

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Having owned a combined mill lathe – the same model, different label, I most certainly wouldn't advice buying it.

For a similar amount of money you could buy a 5" centre height lathe and use a vertical slide to mill small parts and would be likely to get better results from both the lathe and the milling.

John

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Edited By Ajohnw on 16/07/2016 23:13:08

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Although I have never used a milling attachment (had a milling machine), I agree with Ajohnw. Shame perhaps, as I will be selling my CL500 shortly,  but I am giving my honest response. Had it twenty years and never really used the milling part. Replaced with a Raglan LJ. Now replaced my old mill with more 'old metal' which, IMO, was far better than buying new or second hand chinese.

Edited By not done it yet on 17/07/2016 14:11:32

[brickyParticipant @bricky]

I have never owned a lahte/mill but I have built a 2" scale traction engine and many tools on my lathe with a vertical slide with good results.There have to be some comprimises with a budget dual machine.Take note of the previous posts and then decide.

Frank

[Swarf, Mostly!Participant @swarfmostly]

Hi there, Philip,

I'll start by saying I've no experience with any combined lathe/mill. Purely a spectator comment but they all look to me as though the travel when milling is very small. I have the same reservations regarding the Myford/Rodney and/or the Amolco milling attachments. (Reaches for tin helmet!!! )

But I have managed some milling jobs on my Myford ML7 with the vertical slide and I was very pleased with the results. The downside of milling with the vertical slide is that gravity is often against you while you're setting up whereas that difficulty is not so common with a 'proper' milling machine where the job (usually) is mounted on a horizontal table. But, believe me, it can be done – it just takes longer!

Best regards,

Swarf, Mostly!

[Peter TuckerParticipant @petertucker86088]

Hi Philip,

I have a combination lathe/mill and although I would love to have the space and finances to have two dedicated machines I manage to get cope things done within the limitations of the lathe/mill. I have never used a vertical slide on a lathe however I feel the mill on a combination machine would be slightly better.

If you can only acquire one machine I would say go for it.

Hope this helps.

Peter.

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Hi Phil,

I started out with a Clarke CL500 combi some years ago, one of the first models before they fitted the NVR switch; mainly due to price, space constraints, it is some chunk of iron in all its glory, for me solid it certainly was. I did some milling work with the adjustable head & but found that it was somewhat less rigid than I gave it credit for, mainly due to the height of the head when set up for even small work, so that was a downside for me, I had to ensure that all locking screws were really pulled up tight.

The lathe itself worked fine; I was disappointed that it didn't / doesn't have auto feed on the lead screw & found it tiring to keep up a steady feed rate to achieve a decent finish by virtue of having your hand turning the leadscrew handle off to your right whilst eyeballing the cutting tool, also change speeds was a bit if a pain, IIRC in that to get a slower speed you have to insert another pulley in between the motor & final drive & that was only held against the sheet metal guard by a nut and washer. An adequate machine for beginners & if you can only afford one machine… the combi's are not to be sniffed at. I now have a separate lathe & mill & the advantages are obvious.

George.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Don't get a lathe from a chain store. They have minimal knowledge and support and treat it just like a trolley jack as a commodity to be shifted at max volume and profit. If they can sell it vat free that shows the money they usually make on top of the profit they still make in a sale. It is the Trabant of the lathe world.

The centre height is too high to make it seem 'big' but that makes it non-rigid. The mill head is high so wobbly and mostly needs a spacer block (extra) to get the table in range.

For the money you can get a second hand solid lathe and mill drill both of which will have stable resale values if you need to change after a year of experience,

If you "don't have room" build a shed extension first – that never loses its usefulness.

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

+ 1 for the extra comments from Bazyle, specially about staff etc. having said that, I 'managed well enough' with one, with the full intention of moving on as soon as I could

George.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I'm not sure that it's a good idea to suggest that a beginner buys a used lathe. It can be a mine field and is more suited to some one who can check a lathe out and be fully aware of what they are buying, faults and all. There is also the additional problem of finding equipment for them if they don't come with the bits that are usually eventually needed. Some chinese lathes come with all of the bits that are likely to be needed. A cheaper one that doesn't is likely to work out more expensive in the end.

Milling on a vertical slide can be an enjoyable experience as the set up tends to be pretty rigid. The catch really as far as Chinese lathes are concerned is the absence of a graduated dial on the lead screw. The other one on the vertical slide is that often the T slots go in the wrong direction which makes the need for vice more likely. A Taig / Peatol for instance just uses a bit of square steel bar and another carrying socket head screws to clamp the part against it. Might sound stupid but it works out rather well. Both bits of bar can be positioned anywhere on the slide.

The other problem on older machines can be that nothing actually holds the saddle down. It's just designed for turning and cutting forces hold it down. This doesn't seem to be the case on Chinese lathes but I have to say I have never milled on one. It seems some have so best talk to them.

Maybe another option might be a mini lathe, one of the stretched centre ones and a separate small milling machine. Neil might mention what he uses as I think this is what he has. Costs might be similar. Actually I visited some one with a combination machine recently. He had just bought a mini lathe and also had a small mill. He had also been using a Hobbymat. I'd guess he may be keeping the combination machine for it's swing if needed. He had added a variable frequency drive to it. Always an option on belt drive machines and belt drive in terms of power still does have it's advantages.

I managed with my combination machine as well. When I sold it I was really glad that some one turned up that just wanted to shorten bolts with it. It would give a decent turned finish once set up but the alignment was rather lacking and milling something of a disappointment. Maybe they have improved in some respects but I doubt if the milling has. The alignment in my case was very poor. Also it wasn't possible to turn right up to a centre as they had increased the centre distance by a couple of inches. That meant that a morse extension socket had to be used to carry a centre. It also just came with a 3 jaw.

John

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[Philip MaleParticipant @philipmale12384]

Thanks for all the replies guys….. very helpful…. think I will be looking at a straight lathe now with a vertical slide…… my dad always said if I went for a Lathe then go for a Myford 7 but can't afford one of those and I think it would be a risk to go for a 2nd hand one…… i have a mini lathe at the moment but just finding it atoo small and not powerfull enough for what i want to do…..seen all the comments about the Chinese ones and know what you mean but weighing up all the pros and coins and taking into account the experience that people have had with the machine, I think I'm now edging towards the Clarke CL430 with a vertical slide…… thanks again for your time and look forward to keeping in touch with the forum…. Phil

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

That has the handle on the lead screw but how and what vertical slide ? Where is the 4 jaw and fixed steady? Both are usually needed at some point but it depends what you want to ,make.

There are a few other combined mill lathes available. Warco do milling heads that can be attached to some of their lathes but total cost is likely to be higher. The arrangement where the milling column fits to the back of the lathe bed has been used fairly well by Emco in the past. Maybe Warco have an optional handle, maybe not. I don't know anyone who uses one.

Warco also still offer a belt drive lathe as well. No handle on the leadscrew I can see. Personally as I see it belt drive still offers some advantages for a pretty minor inconvenience providing that the setting can be changed fairly easily.

It's ever so easy on my machine but it has to be admitted I do have a tendency to turn in the 5 to 600 rpm range and it also has a back gear for low speeds.

John

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Edited By Ajohnw on 18/07/2016 16:00:09

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Did not like using my ML7 with the Rodney milling attachment, because the ML7 is good lathe, but not rigid enough for anything but very light cuts when milling. Have used a Warco Economy Mill/Drill for about 20 years now.

Too early to have a dovetail column, so have to use a Laser aimed at a pencil line on the far end of the shop to realign the head when moved up or down, part way through a job.

If the budget will run to it, use a lathe for turning (you can use a vertical Slide for light milling over a short distance) and a Milling machine for milling.

When choosing your lathe, (or any other machine for that matter) think of what you might need in the future. As someone said to me "You can do small work on a big lathe, but not the other way round"

I would rather change speeds with belts or gears than electronic controls, although my 12" swing lathe has a VFD. The many reports of boards failing on some of the variable speed mini lathes do worry me.

If you are not a member, join a M E Club, and seek advice and help there. You may get conflicting advice, but it will come from wider experiences, so sift it and then make your choice.

HTH

Howard

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Mine was originally a Clarke CL300M. I got it cheap as a return and a few bits were missing (but rapidly supplied).

Over the years that model has changed relatively little compared to some other mini-lathe designs. If I was buying one again I would try and save up for a brushless motor version with a 16" bed.

If/when I get a new lathe it will be 4" centre height, I have a few in mind, either a Boxford or an import, but that's way off as the only thing I would want to turn I can't is an 8" flywheel -for which I would blag a borrow of a bigger machine.

I have a Taig/Peatol vertical slide, it needs a raiding block fixed onto the topslide fitting for maximum benefit on a mini-lathe. I made a 'machine vice' using a moving jaw from a loose block with two t-bolts on it rather than use the screws direct on the work.

Best improvements were the roller bearings (addedconfidence!_) and QCTP.

Neil

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Worth adding that I blew a couple of motors by running it too slow with uprated fuses and too-deep cuts. My fault.

I only blew the motor board when a wayward swarf-snake wound inside and shorted it out. I retro fitted a rubber grommet where the leadscrew enters my new control box.

Neil

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

You should post that in the vertical slide thread Neil – but how did you set a cut depth? That seems to be the sticking point on chinese lathes. The Peatol slide will position the bottom of the milling table past the bottom of the block it runs on so there may be some scope for mounting it on the compound side.

I often used the screws to hold odd bits also machined a step directly into the jaws so when plate like work was mounted it had to be axially square to the lathe splinde.

John

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[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Easdy enough to leave the half nuts closed and rotate a gear on the leadscrew, 127T on a 8tpi thread is close to 0.001" per tooth. Or just make a simple "dial" to go on the right hand end of teh leadscrew and turn it manually

[Author]

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