How do I undo this screw?

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

Since it is a safe that is fixed maybe the screws are anti-tamper/ anti-theft ? I would use a small chisel and just keep going, but likely screws are hardened. Welding a bit on the end easiest if possible.

[David Standing 1Participant @davidstanding1]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 22/06/2018 16:55:20:

Touch the end of an allen key on a grinding wheel to give it sharp corners.

Great minds think alike

[John ReeseParticipant @johnreese12848]

Split the head with a Dremel then use a regular screwdriver.

[VicParticipant @vic]

I’m wondering why anyone would use screws like this in the first place? Surely the point of a safe is to keep the contents safe?!

I’ve found that few fasteners can resist a nice sharp cold chisel and a big hammer.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

"Seemed like a god idea at the time" : **LINK**

https://www.theengineer.co.uk/issues/16-february-2001/a-new-twist-on-the-old-screw-head/

MichaelG.

[VicParticipant @vic]

Those screws look like an accident waiting to happen. I thought Philips and Pozidrive screws were bad enough.

For wood screws I like Robertson screws as often used in America and Canada. For metalwork I generally use Hex or Torx screws. In fact I’ve just completed a small project using some high tensile Torx screws made in Taiwan, not cheap but good quality.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Uniscrew was invented in 2001, except actually in the 1960s: http://www.theengineer.co.uk/issues/16-february-2001/a-new-twist-on-the-old-screw-head/

It seems it was re-invented in 2012: outlawfasteners.com/

Hmm… lawyer's playground?

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 22/06/2018 19:46:26:

Hmm… lawyer's playground?

.

Even I am not prepared to work my way through this lot … but there are probably some gems.

**LINK**

https://patents.google.com/patent/US6988432

MichaelG.

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

Went to repair a UV unit that I use on my Koi pond with a new ballast unit and found that the screws holding the compartment panel for the electrics, had been changed on the later model from what was used before. Previous unit had just ordinary torx screws, later version had Secure Torx screws, which for the uninitiated are the same but have a pin located in the centre of the opening which takes the torx bit to unscrew it. The tool to remove them has a corresponding hollow to accommodate the pin in the driving bit, went on eBay and obtained the necessary driver bits but certainly frustrating, I know why they are used, it is so that manufacturers can frustrate anyone from tampering with or even repairing their units meaning that you buy another new one. Who keeps dreaming up all these oddball fasteners?

Dave W

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by Samsaranda on 22/06/2018 19:58:24:

…I know why they are used, it is so that manufacturers can frustrate anyone from tampering with or even repairing their units meaning that you buy another new one. Who keeps dreaming up all these oddball fasteners?

Dave W

Yep, it's a job for somebody. Don't see that they dream 'em up though, 'cause I don't know how they'd sleep nights…

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Looks like job for a Stevenson’s hexagonal collet block? Take an allen key which will fit the largest hexagon, then mill off for the smaller ones. Any correction for shrinkage of the ‘cool plastic’ mould can be incorporated in the sizes by comparing the best fiitting allen key with the mould dimensions.

Alternatively – resort to a suitable cold chisel and lump hammer! Grind off remains of bolts level with floor or remove, if possible, after moving the safe. Fit bigger bolts next time. No need for security spanners as this is only accessible when the safe is open.

A more accessible position will likely be more convenient for any potential thieves?

[Tim StevensParticipant @timstevens64731]

If you can make a bit from the end of a 5/16" hex insert, use it as an impact driver bit. These were very popular in the 70s and 80s to undo the very tight Phillips screws used on motorcycles. Basically they are an outer steel sleeve like a big punch, that you hit with a big hammer, while holding the sleeve firm. Inside is a rotary cam gubbins, which combines the impact of the hit with a twist. So, any tendency to cam out is prevented (reduced anyway) at the very instant that the twist is applied. I have one in my tool box, unused for many years …

Regards, Tim

[Gary WoodingParticipant @garywooding25363]

I've had no luck in locating a Uni-screw bit so I've decided to attempt using the mould as a pattern and making my own driver bit.

I'll report back with my success or failure.

[Swarf MakerParticipant @swarfmaker85383]

If these screw heads are inside the safe, then with an allen key socket (i.e. the type used with socket set accessories) and handle, use a machinist jack or other means to wedge the socket into the screw head against the roof of the safe. This stops it 'camming' out.

If you don't have a suitable allen socket then make one by cutting a length from an allen key and using the corresponding ordinary socket that will fit it.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Further to the suggestion from Swarf Maker.

Ages ago I bought an uber cheap, sheet steel'n plastic, lever ratchet for 1/4" hex drive bits. Rolson branded it was well into "What the heck, it might be useful." impulse buy territory. Probably about thruppence three farthing or thereabouts.

Been a wonderful get out of jail tool for over-tight and hard to get at cross heads and hex sockets. Knob on top side of the bit holder lets you hold it down really firmly and dead straight so the bit doesn't cam out. Lever is about 4" long so you can get much more force on than with a screwdriver or even an L wrench. Once the screw is loose it can be quickly spun out with the knob rather than the slower ratcheting process.

Availability of that sort of thing was always very spotty but mine was so handy that I bought another at one of the Sandown Park ME exhibitions to keep one in the garage and one in the workshop. Seem to be more common now but usually a bit heftier and more engineered. Objectively better but whether they will slip into such small spaces as my uber cheapies I don't know.

For example Bergen / US Pro do the nicer looking, more engineered one, one for around £8 as part no 4077. In the pictures it doesn't appear to be much larger than mine.

Clive

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

Gary,

As a precursor to using a bit of your own manufacture you might get a bit of added help from casting a lump of lead into a metal tube over the head of this bolt. The heat from the molten metal while it is setting may help in softening the grip the bolt has in whatever it was screwed into in the first place. Every little helps as Tesco might say!

Regards Brian

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Samsaranda on 22/06/2018 19:58:24:

Went to repair a UV unit that I use on my Koi pond with a new ballast unit and found that the screws holding the compartment panel for the electrics, had been changed on the later model from what was used before. Previous unit had just ordinary torx screws, later version had Secure Torx screws, which for the uninitiated are the same but have a pin located in the centre of the opening which takes the torx bit to unscrew it. The tool to remove them has a corresponding hollow to accommodate the pin in the driving bit, went on eBay and obtained the necessary driver bits but certainly frustrating, I know why they are used, it is so that manufacturers can frustrate anyone from tampering with or even repairing their units meaning that you buy another new one. Who keeps dreaming up all these oddball fasteners?

Dave W

The security ones are usually used to discourage unqualified people from dismantling, however, the bits are widely available from Machine Mart and the likes of. Sometimes just one strategic screw.

The real cunning stuff are things like Apple's 'pentalobe'.

Neil

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

Thankfully not yet encountered Apple “pentalobe” but probably will at some point.

Dave W

[VicParticipant @vic]

The Pentalobe looks like a Torx only with five points. The drivers are commonly available though.

Lidl and Aldi sell security driver bit sets from time to time. They are only about a fiver and have security Torx, Spanner, Clutch, Tri wing, Spline and Robertson etc in several sizes.

[clogsParticipant @clogs]

the Apple pentalobe bolts are also used on a lot of Chinese built scooter's and motorcycles…..

not been able to get the larger size drivers, up to now managed to get the blighters undone in various ways but replace with normal metric headed bolts……mind have come across some weird thread profiles, so make new bolts it takes while as the taps and dies have come from all over……not nec. the best quality but when needs must…

[Gary WoodingParticipant @garywooding25363]

A response on another forum suggested that Forward Industrial Products in Birmingham ***LINK*** might be able to help, so I phoned them. A very nice lady called Kelly said she would investigate and subsequently emailed to say they had 3 Uni-Screw bits and she would send me one free of charge even though they were as rare as Rocking Horse poo! She was as good as her word; the bit arrived by 1st class post and I've removed the screws.

That's what I call service.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Best possible result, Gary

MichaelG.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

I had some equipment to repair, at first glance it was held together with Philips head screws, but when I looked closer they had only three lobes, I modified an old worn Philips screw driver with the Dremmel, and that work well, then today(a good few years on)I went to get a Philips driver, and when I got to today's job found I had the three lobe one.

Ian S C

[John ReeseParticipant @johnreese12848]

I know it would not in your situation but my first inclination would be to use the "hot wrench" aka "gas axe"

[Steve MalikoffParticipant @stevemalikoff95541]

If you choose to use some form of allen key (or any toolbit really) try a drop of a product called 'Screw Grab' which I have found to be a form of industrial magic. I am not 100% sure what it is exactly but I suspect microscopic chips of tungsten carbide in oil or colloidal suspension that bites into the toolbit and the job.. A tiny drop of the stuff on a toolbit has saved me many times. I've no association to the product, just a satisfied user. I've had a tube of the stuff for 20 years and still haven't used it up. I just googled and it comes in a bottle nowadays.

A mention was made of valve grinding paste, a similar idea but not sure if the carborundum is as "bitey" as this stuff is.

[Author]

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