Faircut lathe tidy up

[Jacob LeonidouParticipant @jacobleonidou84012]

Thanks for the suggestions. I ended up going with the easiest method at the time which was to use a ruler to align. It was pretty straight forward and i managed to get the side alignment virtually perfect. The up and down alignment was different and it was clear that i needed shims. I was a bit confused as to what you meant, andy, but when i took the top half of the tailstock off i was surprised to see it already had shims. I took a shim from the front and put it in the back so the tailstock now aligns perfectly. I really appreciate the advice. Things are starting to make a lot of sense.

I also took the time to make a bit of scrap metal. Reason i say that is i went a bit too far trying to clean up the inside bore for this pulley im making, and the bearing no longer fits inside. This was going to be a tensioner to replace the two sandwiched bearings used to tension the main drive belt. Surface finish was decent albeit a very fine thread. I tend to use the power feed for turning as i don't get a uniform finish when i wind by hand.

One other question that has been on my mind is RPM. How have you guys set up your pulleys in terms of rpm? Right now i measure about 250rpm which i think might be too slow. The pictures i posted previously should show my pulley arrangement.

Thanks Jake

[Jacob LeonidouParticipant @jacobleonidou84012]

Turns out the drill chuck was wobbling the way it was because it was contacting on the face of the part where it was spinning, therefore it would try to spin the bit. Rather than touching in the middle if it had been properly aligned where there is little to no rotation.

I've noticed this MT1 is a poorer fit compare to my live centre which locks in really nicely. It was a cheap chinese part from ebay so im not surprised. There is a bit of galling on the inside on the tailstock taper so it will need attention.

[Andy CarlsonParticipant @andycarlson18141]

Hi Jake,

My lathe doesn't have the correct pulleys but so far most of my work has been done at about 400-500 RPM.

I'm not 100% sure this is correct but I think the standard speeds (without backgear) are 220, 391 and 694 RPM with a UK spec 1460 RPM motor.

You will find huge amounts of info about cutting speeds elsewhere but I wouldn't get overly hung up on speeds for most work as long as you are in the right ballpark. If it's cutting well then it's probably fine.

My cheapy chinese MT1 collet holder fits really well in my cleaned up taper but I guess it's a bit of a lottery whether you get good results or not when buying things this way. It cost next to nothing so it was worth a punt.

My tailstock drill chuck is a proper Jacobs on a proper Jacobs MT1 arbor so hopefully the taper on that is correct.

Make sure you start tailstock drilled holes with a centre drill or spot drill (the former are cheaper). These are short and rigid and will cope with a little misalignment. If you really want to test whether your taper grips properly then drill a big hole in some brass – brass is notorious for grabbing hold of the drill and pulling the chuck out of the tailstock taper. On second thoughts, probably don't try that until you have things better sorted..

Regards, Andy

[Jacob LeonidouParticipant @jacobleonidou84012]

It is cutting decently well though I did wonder if finish would improve with higher speed. I know this to be the case with aluminium at least.

The drill chuck is a spare one I had mated to a cheap chines mt1 purchased from ebay. The finish was really poor so im not surprised by the fit. The steel I was drilling grabbed a number of times and spun it in the tailstock. I did start with a centre drill but it would try to orbit the piece due to the misalignment of the tailstock.

Slowly coming together now. I'll report back when I finish my pulley.

Thanks

[Brian MorehenParticipant @brianmorehen85290]

i Jacob

Looks like you a re winning and enjoying yourself. Have the following speed only taken a few days ago,

Motor 1345 RPM Lathe Fast 475 RPM Med 302 RPM Slow 192 RPM Just a though in the back of the old brain box a twist drill for cutting brass if the back flute is slightly undercut this stop grabbing ???. hopefully someone will correct me on this if wrong..

Have fun and just enjoy what you are doing,Brian

[Jacob LeonidouParticipant @jacobleonidou84012]

Thanks Brian. That seems about right. I will play around a bit more and see what sort of finish i achieve with different speeds. Hopefully faster speed will give my a smoother finish on hot rolled steel at least. Right now it looks like a vert fine thread. Also I bought a set of feeler gauges today to sacrifice as shims for my 3/8 tooling when it comes which i thought was pretty clever.

One other question i wanted to ask is what everyone does for their felt wipers? I'm assuming there aren't direct replacements available so is it just as simple as buying felt sheet and tracing around the old ones?

[Andy CarlsonParticipant @andycarlson18141]

No felts on my lathe and I don't recall noticing them on other pics of Faircuts so can't help much with that question.

Regards, Andy

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Jacob

Unless there is some good medical reason for wearing those chunky looking gloves it would be safer when using the lathe to remove them, well at least when the spindle is revolving, or perhaps you do ?

Emgee

[Brian MorehenParticipant @brianmorehen85290]

Hi Jacob.

Your question on felts i find is a puzzle the only felts I found on mine were in the bottom of the main headstock beneath the oilcups these i removed only to find that oil leaks out if i over oil , perhaps a good fault.

Emgee , question re your gloves did wonder my thoughts I bet you have very little feeling in your hands when working a loss of sesitifty when working be carefuul if you are used to wearing gloves if you decide to work without then, The more you do the better you will get you never stop learning , I remember being asked to teach someone everything i knew , My reply I will not live long enough to do that (No Reply)

Good Luck Brian

[Brian MorehenParticipant @brianmorehen85290]

Hi Jacob.

Your question on felts i find is a puzzle the only felts I found on mine were in the bottom of the main headstock beneath the oilcups these i removed only to find that oil leaks out if i over oil , perhaps a good fault.

Emgee , question re your gloves did wonder my thoughts I bet you have very little feeling in your hands when working a loss of sesitifty when working be carefuul if you are used to wearing gloves if you decide to work without then, The more you do the better you will get you never stop learning , I remember being asked to teach someone everything i knew , My reply I will not live long enough to do that (No Reply)

Good Luck Brian

[Jacob LeonidouParticipant @jacobleonidou84012]

Posted by Emgee on 18/06/2020 13:54:25:

Jacob

Unless there is some good medical reason for wearing those chunky looking gloves it would be safer when using the lathe to remove them, well at least when the spindle is revolving, or perhaps you do ?

Emgee

I wear them when i'm handling things but i take them off when im turning.

[Jacob LeonidouParticipant @jacobleonidou84012]

Interesting find, Brian. Cant imagine why they would be there.

 

As for mine they seem to do a good job of wiping the ways. Im pretty sure i'd only have to find some felt material and cut it to shape.

 

More interestingly i made this today. Slowly learning different techniques and getting better overall. Also understanding depths a lot better. One thing i dont quite understand is why the tool takes another cut when im winding back out after the initial cut. If i take a cut, the tool shouldnt cut on the way back, should it?

This piece was to re engineer my table saw winding mechanism to use a purpose made crank instead of a re purposed pulley. It involved welding pieces together and turning to make the piece true. Drilling and tapping, chamfering, boring, facing and turning a shoulder. Absolutely love having this lathe.

Edited By Jacob Leonidou on 02/07/2020 12:28:36

[Andy CarlsonParticipant @andycarlson18141]

Hi Jake,

There are a couple of reasons why it cuts on the way back.

The first is that the tool doesn't really make a flat surface – it's making a vee shaped cut either in a spiral when facing or like a very fine screw thread when turning. As you move back it's cutting the opposite handed thread or spiral and crossing over the ridges and furrows from the previous cut.

The second reason is a lack of rigidity in the lathe and tool. You won't see this much with 3/8 inch tools and light cuts but if you are, for example, using a skinny boring tool in a small hole then you will definitely find that you can make several passes in both directions and the tool will still be cutting. If you are not aware of it and assume that the dials are telling you 'the truth' then you can end up with quite a big deficit between what you think you have cut and what you have really cut.

Glad you are getting to like your lathe.

[Brian MorehenParticipant @brianmorehen85290]

Hi Jake

When you have made your cut switch your lathe off and then return the tool to the start of your cut and look for a strait line that you may have scrached .

On your return, I wonder if this is because your cutting tool needs more of a angle on and is the back edge causing the problem .Some finishing tools are rounded and some have very small flat on the cutting point that is rounded on the back side which gives a smooth finish

Pleased to see you are enjoying lathe and having fun with what you are doing

Have fun and enjoy yourself Brian

[Jacob LeonidouParticipant @jacobleonidou84012]

Thanks Andy that made a lot of sense. I find it happens more wth deeper cuts, I don't notice it when im cutting a thou or two. It's not awful but at least I get it now.

Brian im thinking a tool suited for finishing might fix the problem. Something rounder that smudges out the threads.

Now I've got a question to ask and it is why does the large gear on the headstock spindle (the one that has the locking pin to engage/disengage the backgears) clunk when I turn the chuck back and forth quickly? It's like there is a degree of backlash that I can't remove from tightening the pin. It drives me nuts when the lathe is running as it's noisy. I removed the nut from the locking nut to see what was going on and it fell inside the gear. Luckily I fished it out with a magnet otherwise I would have been in a world of trouble. It's hard the describe but its the gear in the far right of the spindle next to the largest of the three pulleys.

[Andy CarlsonParticipant @andycarlson18141]

The clunk is most likely from the locking peg on the bull gear (the big one near the chuck). It's a fairly loose fit in a slot in the big pulley casting. The nut just holds it in position on the gear, it has no effect on the part that is making the noise.

If it's really bugging you then you can take the spindle out and take all of the pulleys, collars and gears off it and then wrap some tape around the peg… or (more difficult) make new peg that fits better. I did this (the tape thing) for a while but now I've got used toit and it doesn't bother me.

If you do take it apart then take a photo before removing the peg – it has four possible orientations… only one of which is correct.

I'm not convinced that this part worked out as intended – it has tapers and curves on it which appear (to me) to be designed to make it easy to locate and then provide a snug fit and avoid the clunking. The trouble is that if you refit it so that the tapers and curves 'make sense' then you will probably find that the peg can't be fully disengaged once the spindle is reassembled. I'm sure you can guess how I know this.

[Andy CarlsonParticipant @andycarlson18141]

BTW, hopefully you know this but when engaging direct drive after using the backgear you need to find the little notch in the rim of the big pulley and line it up with the nut on the bull gear. Also check that the peg is moving all the way to the end of the slot (there may be crud in the slot).

It will still clunk though

[Brian MorehenParticipant @brianmorehen85290]

Hi Jake

Had the same problem years ago took me a long time before I found out what and where the problem was , Once I made a replacment . all piece and quiet no clunk klick clackety clak another job for you.

Good Luck enjoy your lathe

Brian

[Jacob LeonidouParticipant @jacobleonidou84012]

Interesting, Andy. I don't think I want to pull it all apart just yet and I certainly don't want to do that after just reassembling it all only to find out I did it wrong (I feel your pain). I did infact work out that the pin has to slot into the pulley otherwise it doesn't lock. I noticed this when I was frantically trying to work out how to put the peg after realising it had not fully locked the gear. My question is can you not just spin the peg around to find the right orientation? Or am I missing something?

Brian I did the same thing. I spent a long time tapping everything to find the noise. I don't know why it clunks while its spinning, centrifical force should keep it to one side of its slot. Ill have to deal with the click clack for now.

[Jacob LeonidouParticipant @jacobleonidou84012]

I wanted to share a few things I made.

I converted this old table saw from a door knob twist height adjuster to a proper crank handle. Lathe was so handy as I made a tight sleeve to go over the shaft which then uses a set screw to lock on. Even used the lathe to drill through the wooden dowel. Got to learn a lot about drilling and boring, although I think my tailstock is still out as my drillbits tend to 'orbit' when im drilling holes on the large side.

This is the new belt tensioner to replace the old one that was making that much noise I couldn't hear the lathe rotate.

[Andy CarlsonParticipant @andycarlson18141]

Good to see that you are getting useful work from your lathe Jake.

On my lathe the part of the peg that goes through the bull gear slot is square so once the spindle is assembled you can't reposition it.

I found a couple of photos of the bull gear, peg and the end of the pulley. As you can see the slot in the pulley is not a precision thing. This is what the peg is rattling in.

Regards, Andy

[Jacob LeonidouParticipant @jacobleonidou84012]

Very interesting. Im glad you could post pics as it wasn't easy to imagine what it looked like on the inside by feel alone. I now understand why it was so damn hard to locate to slot. The only difference is that my peg is round with a square end, meaning it can not only be rotated while assembled, but it can also be dropped inside the pulley and lost forever. Luckily I managed to fish it out with a magnet, which was some of my finest work if you ask me.

I can't understand how it rattles. Once located in the slot it has force applied on one side only when the lathe is rotating. The nut is done up really tight so that the peg can't move, and the centurial force would keep it in place (theoretically). Mine rattles like the peg is completely loose.

[Andy CarlsonParticipant @andycarlson18141]

Take it to bits then. You know you want to

If and when you do decide to do that, take it slowly and carefully and be prepared to chicken out, reassemble and allow more time for thinking. You will probably have burrs on the shaft and slightly damaged threads that stop things coming off as intended. Also 'follow' the shaft as you push it out with a suitable piece of bar. This will catch the thrust bearing and its washers and prevent them vanishing into some dark recess.

On the plus side, once you've taken it out once it becomes a lot easier to do it again.

[Brian MorehenParticipant @brianmorehen85290]

Hi Jake

Yours and Andy ,s Different to the Junior Lathe this peg can be completly removed by just removeing the nut yes the slot in the gear is oblong the same as mine the peg has been made from 3/8 round bar and has had all of the flats milled to fit a slow time consumeing job when it is only 10m to start with and is only 18m long ,well worth the work when finished .

Regards Brian

[Jacob LeonidouParticipant @jacobleonidou84012]

Oh yes I do want to take it apart. But as with most things I take apart, it equals significant downtime. Good tip with the bar and thrust bearing. Im pretty keen to take the spindle out so I can check the bearings. Would like to take measurements so that I can potentially make new ones, I think it needs some. It's funny how much you learn taking something apart.

Out of curiosity did you ever find that you tail stock was skewed? Ive aligned it (or I think I have) side to side as well as up and down yet it still seems to orbit the drillbit. I don't know if I shouldn't be using standard length drillbits but they tend to orbit, especially when using larger sizes.

Thanks

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