Disposable Gas Bottles

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Having several empty 600grm and 2.2L Argon / CO2 bottles hanging around, I took them to the local "re-cycling" centre where they were refused. Was told to return them to vendor.

Arrived at vendor to be told, no return without receipt of purchase ! Also I had other bottles from unknown vendors.

I now have the problem of disposal – Do you have the same problem in the UK?

Bob (France).

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

How to dispose of gas bottles ?

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

I have seen them used as vacuum reservoirs for 7 1/4" rolling stock but as an alternative if you ran a saw through the middle, cutting them in two, are they then just scrap steel and no longer pressure vessels or gas bottles?

 

Edited By Nick Clarke 3 on 16/01/2021 11:43:59

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

Posted by Speedy Builder5 on 16/01/2021 11:36:29:

Having several empty 600grm and 2.2L Argon / CO2 bottles hanging around, I took them to the local "re-cycling" centre where they were refused. Was told to return them to vendor.

Arrived at vendor to be told, no return without receipt of purchase ! Also I had other bottles from unknown vendors.

I now have the problem of disposal – Do you have the same problem in the UK?

Bob (France).

 

Online advice for out local tip (U.K.) is that these are not domestic waste and therefore a £6 charge applies, it does appear they are accepted on that basis though.

Nick’s idea looks interesting as well.

Edited By V8Eng on 16/01/2021 11:50:54

[OldironParticipant @oldiron]

As they are non flammable open the valve or drill a small hole to vent any residual pressure then cut them up and dispose of as scrap metal.

regards

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, the last time I went to a local scrap yard I had to vouch that my scrap had no pressurised containers whatever the contents in them was, the simple solution to this was to cut them open, they are then not classed as a pressurised container. Of course your own local scrappy may have a different view.

Regards Nick.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Just pondering …

I wonder what the legality of putting them in a kerbside Litter Bin would be.

Can the local council object to such use of a facility they have provided ?

MichaelG.

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

Similar problem disposing of gas bottles in Australia at the council wastel centres (aka., tip, rubbish dump). The problem is that if the metal waste is sent to for re-cycling and melted down thjere is a danger that they could explode. Even those that containing only air can explode when they are heated and the air inside expands. There are special disposal places for dangerous goods (gas bottles, poisons, paint, etc). Gas bottles can be displosed of here if they are cut in half (safely using correct procedure). as scrap metal.

Pau

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Potentially!

UK public recycling facilities are set up to deal with domestic recycling and they guard against businesses trying to dump industrial waste at taxpayers expense. They're also nervous of private individuals dumping unusual materials because their processes may not be able to handle them.

My council has an arrangement whereby rate-payers can dispose of almost anything but it's by prior arrangement, I can't just turn up at my local tip and leave a box of radium painted aircraft dials for them to sort out!

Another possibility: sellers were made responsible for the cost of recycling certain products in the UK some years ago, and I think the legislation covers the whole EU. Recycling centres may refuse to take these, again because the taxpayer shouldn't pick up commercial costs.

I suspect you've been bitten by one of these. Either the recycling centre doesn't believe it's domestic waste, or they know its a supplier responsibility. As your supplier is unlikely to want to pay to recycle another firms sales, they want you to prove where the cylinders came from.

I don't know how it works in France, but my Council's 'we take almost anything by arrangement' policy is intended to stop desperate people dumping their dodgy rubbish in the nearest river! Not all UK councils do it, so what happens in recycling centres varies considerably.

I'd ask the local council. Be a comedy of errors if I enquired – my schoolboy French is nowhere near good enough to ask about recycling gas cylinders, let alone to understand the reply.

Dave

[Adam MaraParticipant @adammara]

We are just getting a fourth wheely bin, and there is still a list of banned items you cannot put in any of them. As you go round town you see dumped old settee's, beds and tv's Our business premises are near the town centre, and most of the aforementioned have been dumped in our car park, besides a car, and 2 empty cash boxes from parking ticket machines!

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Our council refused to collect our recycling bin "Because it contained metal" two clean Aluminium extrusions.

When I asked the chap in the office if they took baked bin tins (I knew they did ) he said "Yes" When I asked if he knew what they made of, his rely was "Aluminium? He seemed to be surprised to be told "Tin plated steel".

The cabinet member for waste did not think that any of the staff needed training

Despite claiming to be "green" not all grades of plastic are acceptable, nor is Aluminium foil, and glass has only recently become accepted..

I despair!

Howard

[egaParticipant @ega]

May I add a query about a different kind of pressurised vessel?

I have had a number of gas lift office chairs over the years and have occasionally wondered about the warning their gas cylinders carry not to dismantle or open. In my experience these fail gradually and I assume this is through leakage; would it be safe to adopt the advice to cut them open so as to be able to dispose?

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

My local council workmen refused to take a bin containing steel tubes that had once been a greenhouse frame.

The councils excuse was that greenhouse parts were not on their list of recyclable items. So now only a very limited number of items are put in the recycle bin, the rest goes into general waste.

Brian

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Our council refused to collect our recycling bin "Because it contained metal" two clean Aluminium extrusions.

Hi Howard,

Peterborough has different coloured bins than we do, only 10 miles down the road. I expect that particular bin goes to the leccy generation incinerator at the Viridor site, so should only contain combustibles. Although they do get a fair amount of ash and scrap metal. The ash goes over the road to make wall blocks, I believe, and any metal that gets through is disposed elsewhere.

The collection ‘hall’ (a large hopper, basically), about 20-30m square, has an overhead crane where the operator operator carefully transfers stuff around, removing any large non-combustibles (like gas bottles, buggies, etc🙂 ) to a separate line, before feeding ‘good stuff’ into the kit which feeds the furnace. I think they also have metal detectors on the feed belts to avoid blockages further along the line.

Edited By not done it yet on 16/01/2021 12:51:44

[Paul LParticipant @paull58212]

In my experience, if you tape the empty canisters together with duck tape, wrap some black and red cable around the neck and attach an old alarm clock, and place near the local Nat West, someone is usually quick to dispose of them on your behalf.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Some people get quite dreative with old gas bottles, quite fancy doing one of the se myself but would put a copper "boiler" inside the top half of the canister "shell" if running on steam.

[Alexander Smith 1Participant @alexandersmith1]

I can understand why scrappiest don't like gas bottles. A few years ago I was round there for a nosey round and saw they had just installed a brand new car crusher at huge cost. Literally a few weeks later I noticed that it was gone and they were using the old one again. Apparently, a car had come in with a hidden gas bottle in the boot. Went in the crusher and bang. It blew the front off the crusher and bent all the hydraulic rams like bananas. Had to go back to Belgium to be rebuilt at a cost of £100 grand. So their care with gas bottles is well justified and now they insist they are cut in half.

sandy

[VicParticipant @vic]

I’ve got a couple of old disposable Propane gas torch bottles, what do I do with those? I suppose in theory the lightweight aerosol type could go in domestic waste? I’ve got the heavier steel ones though.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

IF the original contents of the bottle were non inflammable then make ABSOLUTLEY sure the bottle is empty before you drill a small hole and then cut in half. For flamable content, empty completely, remove the valve gear if possible before filling with water and cut off the top. For larger gas bottles, as before but a good plan is to pour a quantity of hot water in to drive off any oily heavy fractions that may remain, then cut off the top whilst still brim full of water.

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember12892]

[This posting has been removed]

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Speedy,

Have you no car paint supply warehouse near you that stocks refillables? Similar to Calor you rent the cylinder, then just pay for refills of Co2 or argon mix. Unlike BOC with their yearly expensive commercial only charge.

There's one in Birmingham does this, I tend to use a 10lb bottle every 3 or 4 years and they don't care.

Sounds like you have already spent enough to buy at least 3 cylinders.

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Posted by noel shelley on 16/01/2021 14:17:41:

IF the original contents of the bottle were non inflammable then make ABSOLUTLEY sure the bottle is empty before you drill a small hole and then cut in half. For flamable content, empty completely, remove the valve gear if possible before filling with water and cut off the top. For larger gas bottles, as before but a good plan is to pour a quantity of hot water in to drive off any oily heavy fractions that may remain, then cut off the top whilst still brim full of water.

Larger gas bottles still belong to Calor or Bottogas etc our dump stores them for return to the owners

[VicParticipant @vic]

Posted by Dave Halford on 16/01/2021 15:12:06:

Posted by noel shelley on 16/01/2021 14:17:41:

IF the original contents of the bottle were non inflammable then make ABSOLUTLEY sure the bottle is empty before you drill a small hole and then cut in half. For flamable content, empty completely, remove the valve gear if possible before filling with water and cut off the top. For larger gas bottles, as before but a good plan is to pour a quantity of hot water in to drive off any oily heavy fractions that may remain, then cut off the top whilst still brim full of water.

Larger gas bottles still belong to Calor or Bottogas etc our dump stores them for return to the owners

Yes quite right. I don’t suppose it’s strictly legal cutting up old gas bottles to make wood fired stoves etc out of them?

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Renting bottles is expensive, I use about 2 bottles of 2.2l per year at £35 per bottle disposable £70 per year.

Renting a 10 litre bottle is about £90/ year plus £65 for the gas – so gas for 2 years is about £245.

Something has recently changed making MIG quite expensive !!

Bottles are available from Poland – cheap, can't re-fill in France, UK, Lux,Germany etc !! also use non European gauges !! Have a look on e-bay for cheaper gas !

Bob

[Paul H 1Participant @paulh1]

Speedy,

I too live in France and I reckon I know the type of bottle you are talking about. Being Argon and CO2 there is no explosion risk, but you can put your regulator valve back on but let the valve vent to the open air and leave it open for a bit. Often on the bottles like that you can remove the little valve on top. I used to use the disposable oxygen bottles that are used with the little Camping Gaz oxy propane set, till I bought an oxy acetelyne set 2nd hand. I have found that those bottles when empty are quite useful. I have used rings cut from them on my press. If you don't want them, after full depressurisation cut them in half and stick them in the same local recycling containers as your tin cans.

If you need more gas it is long term more economic to buy a small "real" bottle of gas, Air Liquide for instance and then go and change it for a refilled bottle. Yes there is the bottle outlay to begin with, but there are some French welding supply companies who sell on line. That is how I bought my argon bottle for my TIG set.

Paul

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