Cowboys !!

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

My related hobby at the moment is attempting to make-good some of the work previously done on the little bungalow.

I thought I must share this one … today I removed some very shabby insulation in the  under-stairs cupboard, to see what lies behind, and found this:

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The Mains Earth is clamped to a small-bore pipe, which has been cut and squeezed closed. So far as I can determine at the moment, this pipe runs through the external wall and is also cut at the other end … it is, I believe, the oil feed pipe for a long-removed central-heating boiler.

Tomorrow may tell.

MichaelG

[Pete RimmerParticipant @peterimmer30576]

Is it stripped back and folded or two cable ends in one connector? I don’t think you’re allowed to have a joint in an earth bond not like that anyway.

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Wot you doing with an understairs cupboard in bungalow?

🙂

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

So there is in effect no Earth! Never mind about a cupboard, this is rather more serious

Regards  Brian

[Pete Rimmer]

On Pete Rimmer Said:

Is it stripped back and folded or two cable ends in one connector? I don’t think you’re allowed to have a joint in an earth bond not like that anyway.

Two cable ends … one goes into the Kitchen, the other to the towel rail in the WetRoom.

My main concern being that I think the idiot that connected it presumed the little pipe was ‘Earth’ whereas it’s actually flapping loose … so yes, it’s just acting a connecter block.

MichaelG.

[Mick B1]

On Mick B1 Said:

Wot you doing with an understairs cupboard in bungalow?

🙂

I didn’t want to cause confusion by calling it a Dormer Bungalow

… because the windows to the upstairs rooms are in the end-walls, and the only ‘dormer’ actually just provides daylight to the staircase.

Totally irrelevant to the story, but you did ask.

MichaelG.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Before anyone asks

Built in 1963

So plenty of time for the ‘competent tradesmen’ to have had several goes at it.

MichaelG.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

I wish I’d photographed the flat roof of the small extension holding the kitchen in my first home. If there were awards for Not Doing It Right…. Not only not built by the book, but lacking any thought as to how do it so it works properly.

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A friend who is a registered gas-fitter tells me of being called by a householder deeply dissatisfied with a newly-installed boiler being unreliable, and its installer being unobtainable.

My mate said he found it not only installed incorrectly but some of the mistakes were illegal. Then he and a Gas Safe Inspector they called for a second opinion, discovered the Gas Safe mark on the installer’s invoice was a forgery.

[Wink HackmanParticipant @winkhackman25989]

If it was an equipotential bonding connection to the oil feed pipe then nothing wrong with that. It’s not to be confused with the main earthing conductor.

[Wink Hackman]

On Wink Hackman Said:

If it was an equipotential bonding connection to the oil feed pipe then nothing wrong with that. It’s not to be confused with the main earthing conductor.

Thanks for that, Wink … I may sleep a little better tonight

… I had a nice long shower without being electrocuted, so the investigation will continue tomorrow.

MichaelG.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Wink beat me to it. It amost certainly equipotential bonding not a main earth.

Infact recent revisions of the requiements for electrical installations (BS7671) no longer require equipotential bonding if RCCD(s) are fitted. This is related ot the use of plastic water and gas pipes.

Robert.

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

As my gas feed is in copper it is bonded as it should be.

Totally agree as to the equipotential bonding of the now defunct oil feed.

regards Martin

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Competent tradesmen?

MANY years ago the Londeon Electricity Board sent a chap to change our meter.

My wife kept complaining about plugs flashing, despite bthe socket being “off” when she withdrew them.

When we came sell, the surveyor found that all the sockets were wrong polarity.

The Live and Neutral had been reversed when the new meter was connected!

It took another LEB man about 5 minutes to correct things, on their side of the meter, but frightening!

Howard

[Master of noneParticipant @masterofnone]

A photograph of the service head and incoming mains supply should show whether you have an suitable earthing conductor. If the supplier does not provide a means of earthing you may have to rely on your own earth electrode.

It may be worth asking someone with a suitable instrument to carry out a Zs measurement from one of the sockets.

RT

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Thanks, RT

Here are a couple of photos:

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Like ‘most everything else, the meter box is an unholy mess of archaeology  … but when the Engineer from SMS installed the SmartMeter the first thing he did was check the feed for safety … he was happy with it.

 

MichaelG.

 

 

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

If you want a proper electrical horror story, the one my sister inherited when she moved from Scotland some years ago takes some beating. After moving in, we went round to see the place and I looked to see where the consumer unit was, it was eventually found above a kitchen cupboard.

It was an old 4 way Wylex unit with fused carriers, without a cover and I could not see a carrier for the electric shower. To cut a long story short, this had been wired directly from the Company fuse in the outside box!

Brian

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

When the chap came to install ‘smart’ gas and electric meters, he saw the equipotential bond to the house side gas pipe, which I’d added when I rewired the house in 1986. He removed it saying “You aren’t allowed to use the gas pipe as an earth”. I put it back as soon as he was out of the door. The feed to the house is polyethene…

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi MichaelG, I know what you mean by your unholy mess, but I don’t know what to call mine, but it is all due for a retest in July next year.

That’s only the half of it, the MCB box is on the other side, and the wiring from that is like spaghetti junction.

Regards Nick.

[Master of noneParticipant @masterofnone]

Hello Michael

It looks from the size of the earthing conductor that you have a TT supply (possibly from an overhead supply), so you will have your own earth electrode.

It is reassuring to know that the meter installers checked the supply for safety.  The connection to the earth electrode should be accessible and the earth electrode resistance should be less than 200 Ohms.

[Harry WilkesParticipant @harrywilkes58467]

I think a ‘rat’s nest’ is next up from ‘unholy mess’

H

[Master of none]

On Master of none Said:

Hello Michael

It looks from the size of the earthing conductor that you have a TT supply (possibly from an overhead supply), so you will have your own earth electrode.

 

[…]

Definitely from an overhead supply

It runs from a wooden pole across the street, to near the apex of my roof … then down, and half-way round the building … to finally land at that box [which is above the door into the conservatory]
My yellow arrow indicates direction of travel.

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Today has been consumed by other matters, but I hope to continue the Earth-hunt tomorrow … To the best of my knowledge there is no visible rod.

MichaelG.

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Michael

I think you need to have an electrician to check on the earthing arrangements, not possible to see if the earth block is part of the cutout or a loose block screwed adjacent to the moulding.

If part of the cutout it may be a PME system although usually that is indicated by a PME label and I can’t see one on the moulding.

If the supply is not PME and no supplier earth provided you need an earth electrode fitted outside the property and accessable for testing purposes, I think I remember you mentioning your incoming control as an RCD (RCCB) which indicates a TT supply so will need a stake.

Emgee

 

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Thanks for your concern, Emgee … I do really appreciate it, and will invite the local Electrician round when circumstances permit.

Unfortunately, I am currently working in what looks like a bomb-site [the shambles continues under and behind the base-units in the kitchen] and it would be unreasonable to do so until I can make at least some sense of what has been done.

MichaelG.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

To give you a rough idea of what I am facing … this is what I found under the base-unit after removing the kick-board [with its fancy, but very badly installed, LED lighting] … The Earth Wire is just visible, as I think is some ancient Earth connection.

Apologies for the photo quality, it was the best I could get at the time.

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Image should open a little larger if you click it.

Analysis and Speculation welcome !

 

MichaelG.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Michael is lifting the lid on life, and no-one should be surprised to find imperfections, though the present generation of snowflake pensioners are often shocked.  Much of what we see of the world is cosmetic.   Beauty is only skin deep – inside we are a wobbly bundle of biological processes that splatters in a road accident, and it’s necessary to get the funeral done quickly before unpleasant rotting starts!

Most man-made structures and institutions are the same.  Unless it matters for functional reasons, there’s probably an ugly reality behind the facia.   Most of what we see and believe is paint, putty or spin, and a problem with modern life is we never get to lift the drains!   Ignorance is bliss.

Not clear from Michael’s photos if his home electrics are problem or not.  Untidy for sure, but I’ve seen far worse!

Although the pictures make for an interesting discussion, much of what can be said about them here has to be speculation.   For example, the disconnected oil-pipe photo is correct in one earthing scheme and totally wrong in another.

Good fun exploring the evidence, but to find out, send for an electrician, who will know what to look for.   Then he can confirm what’s what with his test equipment.    We can only guess.

Dave

 

 

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