Complicated post

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Steve,

Do make the journey to Syston, to talk to Ketan.

I am sure that he will be quite open with you, as you should gather from his posts on here.

You will learn something, and the conversation will no doubt clarify your views.

Even if you do not buy a machine from him, you will be better prepared in your search for a machine for your purposes.

Hooward

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

I am just looking at lots of other makes of milling machines now. It does seem as others have said there a quite a few that are the same & just different branding & colour. A large machine is definitely out & I mean the 1 1/2 ton monsters that can be had cheaply. It is a shame the Sieg SX3.5DZP is not available as it does look to hit everything all the others have , but with a bit more. Looks very neat & everything inbuilt. I am surprised others have not done this. I cannot see that I would ever need to do any heavy work with a mill. If I did, I have a few friends that have large machines, so that would not be a problem.

I have been doing some work using the lathe with milling cutters in the chuck, using the vertical attachment to cut slots in Acetal bar, but it's such a pain setting up. I will have to take a trip down to see the Sieg machines. I will soon be doing quite a lot of slotting in Alloy bar & a milling machine would be a great thing to have to do this kind of work.

I am in Leeds so I guess it would be about 1 to 1 1/2 drive. I will give them a ring this coming week. Also yes Ketan does call a spade a spade. But that is good. Would be pointless if everyone said oh yes that will do what you need & then not. The one Alan Waddington is selling is to buy my friends Beaver. It does look a good machine.

Steve.

[Bob Unitt 1Participant @bobunitt1]

One thing to watch is vertical clearance for a drawbar – in my original workshop I had to cut a hole in the ceiling plasterboard to allow me to remove the drawbar, fortunately it cleared the underside of the upstairs floorboards by about 1/8"…

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Steve, I am surprised you are not considering the Senior it is well within your budget, will fit into your space, looks to be in nice condition with some tooling and DRO.

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Posted by Bob Unitt 1 on 07/03/2020 15:31:42:

One thing to watch is vertical clearance for a drawbar – in my original workshop I had to cut a hole in the ceiling plasterboard to allow me to remove the drawbar, fortunately it cleared the underside of the upstairs floorboards by about 1/8"…

That made me laugh. Just thinking of, if it went right through. Luckily I have nearly 8'. 2.4 metres. Went I built the garage I made it as high as poss because I was going to put a car lift in. Was rebuilding quite a few Insurance write offs. But had enough of crawling under cars. Hence the little workshop Regards.

Steve.

[Alan Waddington 2Participant @alanwaddington2]

Posted by Steviegtr on 07/03/2020 15:15:55:

The one Alan Waddington is selling is to buy my friends Beaver. It does look a good machine.

Steve.

 

Steve,

The Tom Senior is nothing to do with me, I just saw it on facebook Marketplace and immediately thought about you. Seller is in Barnsley.

Have not heard anything from your mate selling the Beaver ? But am still definitely interested, could you give him a nudge to get in contact with me.

If you did buy the Tom Senior and need a hand shifting it, give me a shout, i have a tilt bed trailer and could easily transport it for you, really does look like a tidy machine in the advert, i'm surprised at the low price.

 

Edited By Alan Waddington 2 on 08/03/2020 15:36:28

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Hi Alan I will txt louise about the Beaver. Once you know the price of that you will be shocked I think. £800. It has been stood a while so will need a dam good clean up. But all there. Just got a back ache thinking of you moving it. Ok I just rang her now. She said she had left you a message on your phone. She says she will ring you later today. Regards

Steve.

[Alan Waddington 2Participant @alanwaddington2]

Posted by Steviegtr on 08/03/2020 15:48:12:

Hi Alan I will txt louise about the Beaver. Once you know the price of that you will be shocked I think. £800. It has been stood a while so will need a dam good clean up. But all there. Just got a back ache thinking of you moving it. Ok I just rang her now. She said she had left you a message on your phone. She says she will ring you later today. Regards

Steve.

Cheers Steve, will let you know how i get on

[Alan Waddington 2Participant @alanwaddington2]

Posted by Alan Waddington 2 on 08/03/2020 15:51:30:

Posted by Steviegtr on 08/03/2020 15:48:12:

Hi Alan I will txt louise about the Beaver. Once you know the price of that you will be shocked I think. £800. It has been stood a while so will need a dam good clean up. But all there. Just got a back ache thinking of you moving it. Ok I just rang her now. She said she had left you a message on your phone. She says she will ring you later today. Regards

Steve.

Cheers Steve, will let you know how i get on

Just checked my phone Steve and no messages, wonder if Louise has the right number ?

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Check the Number you P.M me with & I will make sure I resend it to her if correct. Just to be sure. I am going to look at the Tom Senior tomorrow. Ketan at Arc had already told me that the chances or them selling me the model I liked, was LOW. So with that I am probably better getting one from someone who wants to sell. I value any input on this forum.Fingers crossed.

Steve.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Add up the extras with that TS. DRO – £200, milling vise – £100, ER collets and chuck – £100, Clarkson – £50, work-holding set – £50. All good items and most needed with a mill. Make an offer that is agreeable to both parties.

I’ve never seen a vertical mill located under a door lintel, as yet😀.

Not really heavier than my Centec and may be lighter. I moved that into my workshop on my own.

There is always a chance of losing money on it, but it should not be much if bought at the right price. They are highly rated – and olde british manufacture.🙂.

Likely my short-list, if I was in the market for a vertical mill…

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Thanks for that (not done it yet). Just spoke to someone from an engineering background who says the Tom Senior model like that is pretty rare with a Quill handle. He said most of them were fixed so diagonal drilling was not possible. Very hopeful. Anyone reading this post, may I say thanks you all for your input. See what tomorrow brings.

Steve.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

That Tom Senior is also on ebay at £1700 – extra probably to cover fees.

[vic francisParticipant @vicfrancis]

Hi Steve there is a nice tom senior listed on here today, with quill feed and inverter. These machines can be stripped down to moveable to be carried by two people,as we did… The one on here is a much better one than mine!There was a super rare Ton Senior in denford marketed guise… that’s the best version!

However, big is better no doubt about that all. Like the Beaver you mention.

On the smaller machines like the Tom Senior, a better machine is the Van Norman; often overlooked and ungainly looking, but it can shift metal for a machine with a small footprint. I would say ; if buying secondhand is what quality accessories are available withe machine, and how well has it been looked after, and what if it needs something? Ie feedscrew ect?? ie spares!

kind regards and good luck!

vic

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Posted by vic francis on 08/03/2020 21:14:22:

Hi Steve there is a nice tom senior listed on here today, with quill feed and inverter. These machines can be stripped down to moveable to be carried by two people,as we did… The one on here is a much better one than mine!There was a super rare Ton Senior in denford marketed guise… that’s the best version!

However, big is better no doubt about that all. Like the Beaver you mention.

On the smaller machines like the Tom Senior, a better machine is the Van Norman; often overlooked and ungainly looking, but it can shift metal for a machine with a small footprint. I would say ; if buying secondhand is what quality accessories are available withe machine, and how well has it been looked after, and what if it needs something? Ie feedscrew ect?? ie spares!

kind regards and good luck!

vic

Thanks vic. I will be having a good look at the play etc. Having spoken to the seller it seems he is meticulous with his machines, so I expect it to be very good. At 350kg it will probably be quite rigid in operation as long as everything is adjusted correctly. I know most of the Western made machines used the Acme thread to keep things tight. As long as they are not worn out. That was something that always bothered me about the imported machines using plain threads. Even the lathes seem to have poor threads , which of course causes all sorts of problems down the line.

Steve.

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

To be honest I am really gritting my teeth here.

EDIT Some content removed due to language and political content, Jason

I ran a very fruitful company for many years, with at times over 15 employees. My customers were companies like Foxes biscuits, Nestle Rowntree, Thornton's & even a company from Colne, that made biscuits for the famous Harrods department store. I advised many companies on the tempering of chocolate to make sure it had the correct shine when finished. How to run a production line efficiently & even had a hand in the production in the making of the various Kit Kat flavours. I even helped design & build the injection pumps for the After 8 Baileys flavour, the orange flavour & others. In all my time as a contractor I never came across a pompous **** **** . Because my customer was always right. Even if sometimes I did not agree so. I went with their needs. It paid off & I retired with a healthy income. I live very comfortable & put that down to being good at what I did. It seems the people at a particular company have totally different views to mine. A bit like the Noah's ark project, which was build it & they will come.

It seems to me that the owners of ARC have the outlook that they will come to us & we shall turn them away at our discretion. If you had a diamond ring that was the only one in the world you could choose your customer because you could. A bit like the last Bentley i bought, sorry the books are full for the next 2 years. Ok i will take my business elsewhere. Unfortunately you are selling cheap imported goods from a country that recycles anything they can get there hands on. ************************************************* Jesus I even bought my new F-type from a dealer that bent over backwards to please me. I have never had a reply from someone who says. The chances of us selling to you are LOW. I am sorry but I await in abatement for the arbituary of your company when it goes POP & the way you operate it will. We have turned down 5 prospective buyers, What a load of ****. The they will ring me back bit is from a you tube video that you must have watched. Something like how to get rich quick.

Sorry for being so bitter but after a few PM's I have had it seems that this forum has a few members that are in the clutches of some sellers ads. That is sad. Which means the truth about human beings is it is all about me. Profit for the individual. Not about helping others making a decision on a product. You know who you are. Because I am being so forthright about the forum I expect I will be excommunicated forthwith. So before I am banned from the forum. Thanks to all the people that sent me private mails warning me about the inner circle of the forum. You all gave me good advice which I took. 

Steve.

Steve.

 

Edited By Steviegtr on 09/03/2020 03:20:42

 

Edited By JasonB on 09/03/2020 07:35:18

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Steviegtr on 09/03/2020 00:23:25:

Posted by vic francis on 08/03/2020 21:14:22:

Hi Steve there is a nice tom senior listed on here today, with quill feed and inverter. These machines can be stripped down to moveable to be carried by two people,as we did… The one on here is a much better one than mine!There was a super rare Ton Senior in denford marketed guise… that’s the best version!

However, big is better no doubt about that all. Like the Beaver you mention.

On the smaller machines like the Tom Senior, a better machine is the Van Norman; often overlooked and ungainly looking, but it can shift metal for a machine with a small footprint. I would say ; if buying secondhand is what quality accessories are available withe machine, and how well has it been looked after, and what if it needs something? Ie feedscrew ect?? ie spares!

 

kind regards and good luck!

vic

 

Thanks vic. I will be having a good look at the play etc. Having spoken to the seller it seems he is meticulous with his machines, so I expect it to be very good. At 350kg it will probably be quite rigid in operation as long as everything is adjusted correctly. I know most of the Western made machines used the Acme thread to keep things tight. As long as they are not worn out. That was something that always bothered me about the imported machines using plain threads. Even the lathes seem to have poor threads , which of course causes all sorts of problems down the line.

Steve.

Plain threads? WTF? How does that work?

Edited By JasonB on 09/03/2020 07:01:14

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

I saw the content of Steve’s post in the automatic email notification.

Just for the record, I am happy for the content of that post to be reinstated in its entirety as it was written by him.

It is up to Neil and/or Jason as moderators to decide if they wish to do so.

Ketan at ARC

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Steviegtr on 09/03/2020 00:23:25:. I know most of the Western made machines used the Acme thread to keep things tight. As long as they are not worn out. That was something that always bothered me about the imported machines using plain threads. Even the lathes seem to have poor threads , which of course causes all sorts of problems down the line.

Steve.

Steve, may be a bit more research on your part would be a good idea, even the little SX2.7 I have here does not use Vee threads ( What I assume you mean by standard) Like a lot of the imported stuff it has a trapizodial thread form on the lead screws which is the metric form of ACME. Not measured the angles on my X3 which is imperial so don't know if it is 10tpi ACME or 2.54Tr but definately not "plain"

Edited By JasonB on 09/03/2020 07:45:30

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posts crossed Ketan, I have removed the content that is against forum rules, next time I may well just delete the lot.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

I think Ketan’s comments about this particular machine are quite in order, until the machine is proven not to have any further deficiencies. It may be a shame that buyers are used as a form of test bed, but that goes on throughout industries – car makers do thousands of miles testing new models but still the first production models may be monitored as customer testing. New food lines are finally tested on the public – and withdrawn, on occasions, if sales are poor.

Small companies do not have the resources to test machines (often to destruction) and require supportive users to make honest suggestions for improvements and not to blab all over the internet if the machine is found to have a defect. I think this may be a case like that and selection of honest reliable ‘testers’ can only be made from well known previous customers. Stevie gtr (whatever that stands for) simply does not fit the criteria for testing this, or any, new model in the home workshop. I would add that Andrew clearly does not have a typical home hobby workshop, so might be excluded from being used as a testing station.🙂

I can think of a few others that may be excluded. Possibly me as well.😇

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Can I thank Jason and remind other forum members that no matter how fervently they hold their opinions there's no need to use unpleasant language.

Clearly Steviegtr and some other forum members think we have some closed 'magic circle'; I think we are far more open about relationships between advertisers and sponsors these days than in the past (LBSC I'm looking at you…)

All I will say are two things:

A few of our regular advertisers are active in engaging on the forum, sending me press notices or offering things for review, several others choose not to do so. This is their choice and personally I'd be delighted if they were able to engage more often but each company has to balance how it uses its resources and has its own approach to promotions and social media.

Secondly, it does make me smile when I see how people assume that all these hobby suppliers are engaged in battle, red in tooth and claw. Actually the vast majority of the companies all get along very well as individuals; they all share a common interest of a diverse and well-supported hobby and each focuses on a slightly different user profile.

Now please, let's keep this civil.

Neil

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

Boxford VM30

Auction ending on the 12th includes a Boxford VM30. No quill on these, but this one looks pretty unmolested, if a bit grubby. £87 + fees at the time of posting.

Nigel B

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember32069]

[This posting has been removed]

[Cornish JackParticipant @cornishjack]

The perils of self-glorification coupled with dispensing toys from perambulators on public forums has rarely been demonstrated more fully. We are blessed with liberal moderators!

rgds

Bill

[Author]

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