advice required

[john evans 13Participant @johnevans13]

Thanks John but I want to buy something to use,not throw more money at. I arranged to go to Widnes to see a boxford tomorrow but have recd a text saying it is now sold. According to eBay it was removed due to an error so assume he sold privately and pulled the auction to avoid commission.

[john evans 13Participant @johnevans13]

Thanks for the many responses and opinions.

Tonight I bought an old southbend 9" swing 36" bed machine. Unused and neglected for over ten years but owned since the late 40's by a development engineer.

Fingers crossed.It was cheap so if things do not work out it can be sold as spares.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

John, it sounds as if it has good possibilities.

Ian S C

[john evans 13Participant @johnevans13]

Time will tell. I cannot collect until sunday at the earliest so will report on my findings once collected.

The owner says there are other items to take but at present I know nothing more.

I assume having been owned and used by the late owner since the late 40's it must have been good. I am told he gave it much use and had to rescrape the bed due to wear in the centre.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I looked around at them a long time ago. Ideally one of the versions that had a large bore spindle. The only models I could find all had spindles running in cast iron and were all well used. It seems there are some that used phos bronze so could be replaced even though there is likely to be some spindle wear. Some of those are hardened. I've been down the runs in cast iron route several times on rather small lathes. Once worn it's not an easy thing to sort out and the wear spoils the alignment even if they can be adjusted. On one I bought I thought about taking it into work and reboring the bearings but decided to look for something with phos bronze bearings instead. As the ML's are too big for what I want that has taken a long time. I have seen some lathes where the bearings have been removed and a new larger diameter spindle made – probably on the lathe.

John

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[john evans 13Participant @johnevans13]

Well that put a dampener on things. I suspect there will be wear but am reasonably confident the bearings are phosphor bronze as I looked up the original sales documents online. Sadly not the large dia spindle but it is said to be hardened.

As it is only £150 i can take the chance.

[john evans 13Participant @johnevans13]

Update as promised

The southbend is now home and I am pleased to report it is better than anticipated. The rust shownn in the sales pics turned out to be a mix of old oil,dust and sawdust. 14 additional change gears were located,3 chucks,one 4 jaw independent, a drill chuck and drills. Thread form tool,tool steel,tool holders and cutters.

It is currently painted white but seems to have been green initially. Any idea what is a close shade of paint?

The motor is quiet but it needs a new drive belt as it is perished and broke at the stitch when I ttied to separate it. All in all a good buy,150 well spent,I even picked up a nice 3a vice for an extra 20.

Happpy bunny. Just have to strip,clean and refurb cosmetically now.

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by john evans 13 on 29/01/2017 18:41:15:

It is currently painted white but seems to have been green initially. Any idea what is a close shade of paint?

That's why I like painting my machines black, you can't really get it wrong.

Michael W

[mark smith 20Participant @marksmith20]

Posted by john evans 13 on 25/01/2017 20:29:59:

Well that put a dampener on things. I suspect there will be wear but am reasonably confident the bearings are phosphor bronze as I looked up the original sales documents online. Sadly not the large dia spindle but it is said to be hardened.

As it is only £150 i can take the chance.

I have 2 southbend 9A lathes , one from 1942 and one from 1964 , both have plain cast iron bearings ,the earlier one is segmented ,the later one solid. The spindles are an extremely accurate  fit and neither had much if any wear. In fact the later one had two slight scores and corresponding welded on particles on the hardened spindle which cleaned up fine with a fine stone.The area effected was that so small compared to the bearing surface that it would have had zero impact on the accuracy.

The earlier 1942 one had no blemishes or damage whatsoever, i suspect the segments bearings help get rid of any abrasive particles that manage to get in there somehow.

The bronze bearing on 9" southbends appear to have been discontinued just before WWII and even after the war they continued with the plain iron bearing despite going back to bronze for larger models.

That said as long as the spindle is assembled clean and the correct oil used (mobil velocite 10) ,the iron bearings should be fine for decades.(thats if your new lathe has iron ones)

Edited By mark smith 20 on 29/01/2017 20:11:59

Edited By mark smith 20 on 29/01/2017 20:12:53

[john evans 13Participant @johnevans13]

Michael

No I do not want black but I understand your viewpoint. I would like to keep the colour close to original..not that I have with my 1924 royal enfield. My 1963 norton is green but darker than that on the lathe.

Mark

The seller told me the headstock had pb bushes but as I have not stipped the machine I cannot be sure. The serial number seems to put it at 1941,a model c..not a 35 junior as believed. This would fit the wartime use I was told about plus the 1940's purchase date.

The is no discernable play in the bearings and oil was visible in the oilers.In fact the whole machine operates smoothly. Before buying,my own research indicated that beds wore more that headbearings.The bed was rescraped in the past so hopefully it is ok for a few more years.

Are there any things to watch out for on the stripdown. I hear tge spring loaded wicks can be an issue?

Thanks for the feedback

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

John,

I have no experience of the South Bend lathe … but I remembered seeing this US Army manual a while ago

if you haven't got it already, I suggest downloading. **LINK**

http://www.wswells.com/data/9_workshop/CL670Z_army.pdf

MichaelG.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

According to Tony on Lathes UK, they were a greenish grey, not always the same shade. He suggests a good start would be Benjamin Moore Urethane Alkyd Industrial Enamel, formula: M22-3B, OY-15, BK-27, MA- 1 1/2 per quart.

Sounds like you'll have to swat up on flat belts, sometimes car timing belts turned inside out can be utilised, a second use for a worn out one.

Ian S C

[mark smith 20Participant @marksmith20]

The spring loaded wicks are not usually a problem when taking apart but sometimes a touch fiddly when putting the spindle back. There is usually two small holes in the front of the headstock casting (but not always ) ,which allows you to poke in something like a small allen key to hold the wicks down whilst replacing the spindle. Most of the tear down is common sense apart from the left hand clutch screw (which i dont think you have ).

Most people replace the thrust washer at the back of the headstock spindle with narrow needle bearings which cost around £7 and almost eliminates spindle end float.

What year is the lathe, serial number is on the right of the bed under the tailstock?

Edited By mark smith 20 on 30/01/2017 11:30:16

Edited By mark smith 20 on 30/01/2017 11:34:16

[john evans 13Participant @johnevans13]

Age? Last nigh I believed it to be 1941 based on serial numbers close to it on an american macinery site.

Today I cleaned up the plates and it appears to be 1940. Catalogue no 413. 40 bed length 3.5. Serial no 116895.

The plate on the back shows

AD.M 1432/18

P.NO 111

116895

NO sign of grrey paint anywhere,just green and cream.

[mark smith 20Participant @marksmith20]

it is probably Sept 1941 (is that 40 part of the model number?), is that model 413 or 415? My earlier one is 122171 which appears to be end of 1942.

They seem to have been in various shades of grey ,but you could get any colour you wanted if you paid a small surcharge.

Edited By mark smith 20 on 30/01/2017 14:42:25

[john evans 13Participant @johnevans13]

Yes Mark..a typo. It is 415.

Interesting to hear they were grey. I suppose it could have been thoroughly cleaned up and repainted in the past..maybe more than once? One tends to assume paint found on inner faces of castings to be original,if so,green was the colour:if not…?

Anyway it is progressing slowly.tailstock and all guards are off. Info plates refurbed and quite a bit of paint scraped off by hand. I am off to the shops tomorrow to chose a colour then buy 500ml which I expect will suffice.

I favour rustolium which I use on outdoor metal posts with success but it depends if they have a suitable colour. I like originality but do not want to go to extremes as it is only cosmetic.

[mark smith 20Participant @marksmith20]

I painted mine in boxford blue/grey which looks ok in person but very blue in photos for some reason. The original colour on mine was a sort of grey with a greenish bluish tint , and somewhat similar to Rustoleum Mouse grey. If i was doing one again which is very unlikely i would prefer the grey to the blue/grey boxford colour from Paragon paints.

Edited By mark smith 20 on 30/01/2017 18:49:03

Original colour

Edited By mark smith 20 on 30/01/2017 18:53:12

[john evans 13Participant @johnevans13]

Thanks Mark. Nice pics of your machine.Even the original motor! Sorry for the delay responding.The site decided to refuse my password until now! The grey looks fine but as yet I have not chosen a colour for my machine.I suppose it depends what the shop has in stock when I go. No such luck today! Plenty of info on the web and lots of videos but most are superficial rubbish which tell little or nothing.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited By john evans 13 on 31/01/2017 22:30:51

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