advice required

[BikepeteParticipant @bikepete]

If you're happy to 'go bigger' then go for it! As a former Myford owner I'm now a big fan of 'heavy iron' – which kinda means a floor standing 'proper' industrial lathe (& mill in due course!) – a bit more effort to move and install but a pleasure every time you use them thereafter.

A Boxford is about the smallest I'd look at – on its stand it weighs rather less than the models Carl suggested – 250 kg or so? Same as two hefty blokes (or three skinny ones) standing next to each other. Most sheds shouldn't need too much reinforcing to hold that. Some hefty timbers under it might be good anyway to raise the working height, especially if you're tall. Also Boxfords can be easily dismantled into smaller chunks for transport/moving if need be. Appear to be several on sale in North Wales just now on Ebay…. (e.g. in Bangor, Carwen, Caernarfon, Whitchurch)…

But maybe best not get too set on any one brand – just be patient until something you fancy (and which is in a condition you're happy with i.e. not worn out/knackered) comes up within striking distance… so you have a chance to inspect if at all possible.

If you're up for taking on an older model there's a decent sized lathe with plenty of vintage charm on sale in Church Stretton just now, too…

Edited By Bikepete on 09/01/2017 16:22:59

Edited By Bikepete on 09/01/2017 16:32:09

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

You can keep an eye out on homeworlshop.org and the for sale section of lathes.co.uk. The last one can be an expensive option but not always.

When I am looking for a lathe I don't have any loyalty really. What turns me on is condition, the kit I need coming with it, swing etc and in my case bench mounting. As it turned out I went from a myford ml7 that turned into a super 7 but still had things needed doing – bed regrind, to a Boxford ME10, the bench mount version of their lathe with all I could want really with it and in unusually good condition as far as wear is concerned. It could have been anything really providing the headstock bearings could be changed. I didn't want to have to sort out either super or ml 7 bearings again. They are ok when done and do last but it's hassle I can do without.

I bought the boxford blind but did ask the seller how much taper it turned over 6". He reckoned 0.002" on unsupported 1" bar as he had nothing bigger. Turned out that the bearings were a bit loose. Good that he replied though. Many think if the chuck goes round all is ok.

I much prefer to go and look carefully. Distance doesn't both me much more the time to get there. Depends really but an hour to an hour and half is fine by me. Longer if highly desirable. I might ask the wife if she fancies a look around and a meal where ever it is too at times.

When I had a floor standing lathe it was a Raglan. The square headed one. That sort of thing needs a machine tool mover really or hire a small car transporter with a winch or what ever.I looked at all sorts including a number of makes of gearhead that some would say yes yes too. I couldn't find one in decent condition. All of them were really well used. Also some boxfords in a similar state. Maybe because they generally really do get used in B'ham. From the swarf hidden away in it the Raglan had probably only been used by pipe fitters in some factory some where. Ex workshop lathes can be good. Toolrooms tend to keep them until they are no use at all to them. Companies do go bust though.

It can be worth asking about on local industrial estates for medium sized and up stuff. If they sell to dealers they don't get much so some one might sell one before it's had it.

I suspect the biggest problem with your current lathe is probably weight and design. Maybe wear as well. Chinese lathes do seem to have improved.

John

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[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Quite often in my experience, people who ask for advice really only want to have their decision confirmed. Nothing wrong with that. I think John clearly signalled a preference in his original post when he said "My search inevitably takes me to older myfords". There's nothing wrong with that either.

My advice to John would be go for it if you fancy an ML10. Trust your judgement. After 17 years experience with a Conquest you should be able to assess the ML10s shortcomings before paying for it. You are at an enormous advantage compared with a rank beginner when it comes to the perils of buying a second hand lathe.

I nearly bought a ML10 rather than a mini-lathe when I first started out. The Myford was about 10% more expensive for similar capacity. I decided go mini-lathe partly because I thought the ML10 was rather basic, but mostly because it was very obviously 'used'. Who knows, I may have missed a bargain. I never regretted buying the mini-lathe, but still…

For some strange human reason people have a strong tendency to deny the faults of their nation, personality, home town, offspring, football team, politics, system of measurement, and machine tools! If you do get the ML10, please tell us honestly how it compares in practice with your Conquest. A dispassionate report would make a super read.

Dave

[john evans 13Participant @johnevans13]

Thanks Pete. I am not hung up over brands but I am on price. Many of the makes you mention are above my budget as I am an occasional tinkerer and cannot see it becoming a huge hobby. I only use my machines to fabricate minor motorcycle parts,stainless and brass nuts,bolts,studs and some new axles and spindles.

Harrisons,colchesters etc tend to sell for 800 plus. The boxford in Caernarfon is 800 too.He will negotiate but notby much hence it is still there. I have looked at other boxfords but they were also expensive plus I had hoped for a bench lathe.I have had to amend my options to suit space,cost,weight,availability.

I have not seen the machines in Bangor,whitchurch etc.are they on ebay? I tend to view ebay,preloved,gumtree and shpock..

I take the point re weight but reallyfeel the floor is overloaded even now so I have go carefully resolve this without creating too much work and expense.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 09/01/2017 16:36:20:

If you do get the ML10, please tell us honestly how it compares in practice with your Conquest. A dispassionate report would make a super read.

.

+1

… and maybe write an article for MEW & earn a few quid to offset the purchase.

MichaelG.

[BikepeteParticipant @bikepete]

Posted by john evans 13 on 09/01/2017 16:42:22:

I have not seen the machines in Bangor,whitchurch etc.are they on ebay?

Yes, I just entered a postcode in Capel Curig (chosen randomly via Google maps as suitably representative of North Wales!) then did a search for "lathe" in the "business, office and industrial" category, selecting 'used' only and sorting the results by 'nearest first'. Then just looked through the first few pages for promising candidates.

EDIT: If you can't find them let me know and I'll message you with the links.

Edited By Bikepete on 09/01/2017 16:58:16

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Someone, I think, mentioned 35mm.

If you want to pass something that size through the Headstock mandrel, you need a MT5 bore.

That will come with a larger lathe, apart from the US and UK makes, you are likely to find such things in a secondhand Warco BH600/Chester Craftsman/ Engineers ToolRoom BL12-24, (or their modern equivalents which may well be geared head rather than belt driven).

Those just mentioned, are effectively the same machine in different colours,  will swing 12" over the bed, (18" in the removable gap), Induction hardened beds with prismatic ways, and have a Norton gearbox with power feeds for Sliding and Facing.

They do weigh about 300Kg, so your floor could pose a problem. Could you use angle iron to spread the load?

For what I do, my BL12-24 (with VFD) has proved to be quite satisfactory, but if you don't fancy later Chinese machines, you have to look at even older machines, probably ex Industry (heavy wear possibly) or ex school/college (light use but abused). These are likely to put into Restoration man mode before you start the work for which you bought the lathe.

Remember that you can do small work on a big lathe, but not the other way round!

HTH

Howard

Edited By Howard Lewis on 09/01/2017 17:02:52

Edited By Howard Lewis on 09/01/2017 17:12:52

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

Sometimes people ask for advice to get it. Fully agree with the big lathe small work sentiment.

If you buy a machine from a dealer they will deliver it palletised to your house. As long as you choose wisely it’ll probably just need a good clean and adjust.

So you can beef up your shed floor and get ready to make some serious amounts of bedding for the stainless steel hamster.

Alternatively you could install a steam engine and some lineshafting and get really authentic with the Myford.

[Alan Waddington 2Participant @alanwaddington2]

Posted by Carl Wilson 4 on 09/01/2017 15:34:14:
You might as well use this period to reinforce the floor and get a 2nd hand Harrison or Colchester. My M250 is about 380kg.

 

 

That surprised me, i always thought the M250 was the Harrison equivalent to the Colchester Student, however my short bed Student 1800 weighs in at 800kg…….you live and learn !

Edited By Alan Waddington 2 on 09/01/2017 18:49:22

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

Yes. I believe a Colchester Student is more in line with a Harrison M300. From what I can tell, a Harrison M250 is more like a Colchester Bantam. In fact, after the 600 group rationalisation, I think there was a Colchester Bantam that was essentially a Harrison M250 with a different badge and a few cosmetic alterations. I think this is shown on lathes .co.uk.

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

Compare and contrast girls and boys:-

[john evans 13Participant @johnevans13]

I actually sought advice for the reason stated..i was considering an ml 10. As it happens this is no longer available as I dithered. I have bid on the 13" southbend but have been outbid and will not raise my price.

The advice is appreciated as I have made no decision. I will not however be buying from a dealer and if I buy large I will strip the machine and trailer it home the clean up,rebuild and reset everything.

Re the ebay search I cannit find much.I have no idea what the 14in in church stretton is but it looks a well used heavy machine with no extras.

As I screwcut I need a machine capable of doing so hence the cheaper boxfords are out. I think circa 500lb is the max I can cope with but I would rather keep to half that if possible.

I did enquire about a boxford on the classifieds on this forum but no replh..it was placed a month ago.

If anyone knows of a decent machine for sale which meets my criteria please let me know.

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

Psst…It is I…Zee 'Arrison M250…..

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

Fair Enough John. I have a friend who is in a similar situation to you. He actually wasgiven a Rollo Elf over Christmas. It has a Sturmey Archer bike hub as a change speed unit. Actually rather ingenious. Although a nice thing it is of no use to him as he wants to do classic car work…I think he is looking for a Harrison L5 or maybe a 140.

I'm sorry if my gentle ribbing of the Myford crew offended you in any way, it wasn't my intention. Being ex military I do like a bit of friendly banter. I know it isn't everyone's cup of tea though.

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

Spot the difference:-

[BikepeteParticipant @bikepete]

Posted by john evans 13 on 09/01/2017 19:25:36:

I have no idea what the 14in in church stretton is but it looks a well used heavy machine with no extras.

No idea either what the 14" machine is – but four jaw, fixed steady and taper turning attachment are all visible in the pics. Could be worse…

If we're looking at a sub £400 budget that limits the options somewhat. But still a good chance something suitable will come up – may take persistence in watching the used listings for days/weeks/months – or local word of mouth might bag you one. Good luck.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

There is a reasonably kitted out Harrison 300 on ebay at the moment maybe £3000. If it's good that would not be a bad price. Looking at the shots gives some idea of the sort of person that used it.

£400 for a truly good ML10 with hardly anything with it would be good too – ebay probably a lot more. Maybe on Gumtree. There is some one trying to sell a speed 10 in classified for £1300 on here. I'd say no chance given what's missing – change wheels.

I looked at a Boxford some time ago N of B'ham. An ME10A, mine is the older ME10. It's pretty good apart from bed wear that causes it to turn some taper and has what I suspect is a 3 phase motor driven from 240v via capacitors. I'd sort that out as it makes start up rather disconcerting. It's in Sale so if you are in N Wales might be an option, I'll PM you his email address just in case it's still about. It's on a cabinet – no way to open the doors so could be bits in it. Finish was good so bearings etc ok. They can be moved pretty easily by removing the headstock, tailstock and drive motor. 2 people could move it that way. Might be possible to force the cabinet doors with a rather large screw driver but an electric drill would be more certain. He goes to S wales regularly but suspect it's on his bike. I bought mine back in the back of a Passat estate. A van might be a better idea to include the cabinet. I would have that even if I didn't use it. On the bench you could just use the tray. Taper – not much but a lot more than mine. Just thou's though. I looked because it is the newer version. I didn't get as far as checking the back gear fully. It would be easy to do a lot worse but there is always some risk with used lathes.

I think Bikepete made a good point. One I always try to make – don't rush and if you do look at something try it and be prepared to walk away. If you think the price is too high discuss it before going.

I don't seem to be able to PM you. Pity as I looked last Sept so it might still be there.

John

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Edited By Ajohnw on 09/01/2017 21:01:36

[MalcBParticipant @malcb52554]

Posted by Carl Wilson 4 on 09/01/2017 19:09:25:

Yes. I believe a Colchester Student is more in line with a Harrison M300. From what I can tell, a Harrison M250 is more like a Colchester Bantam. In fact, after the 600 group rationalisation, I think there was a Colchester Bantam that was essentially a Harrison M250 with a different badge and a few cosmetic alterations. I think this is shown on lathes .co.uk.

The latest Harrison M300's and Colchester Student 2500's are also the same lathe as each other. Not shown on lathes.co.uk though.

[john evans 13Participant @johnevans13]

No I am not bothered by the ribbing,it is what happens on forums as in real life. Similarly threads get high jacked and go off at a tangent thereby forming new sections.

Re the 14in. Yes having looked again there are tools.I had discounted it earlier when the seller failed to respond to questions.

[john evans 13Participant @johnevans13]

Thanks Ajohnw. Useful info. Sale would be about the limit I am prepared to travel. The ml10 however appears to be still available,seems the buyer did not pay! Could be sus but I will see what happens.

400 has been suggested as my budget but I have not said that. I expect to buy something for up to 650. Yes I can pay more,but no I do not intend to to as my money is better placed in my old bikes as they are generally appreciating assets. A good lathe seldom loses either but once again it is down to choice.

Re the 14in lathe on ebay,why do people advertise items yet fail to respond to queries? It seems counterproductive to me.

[john evans 13Participant @johnevans13]

Well the owner of the lathe in church stretton got back to me after the auction ended.

Still no idea of its manufacture. Weight approx 1/2 tonne. The major issues are that it does not run without shedding its monster 4"belt. Additionally the drive has been messed about with,plus the machine is 8' long..too big for me.

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

Hi John,

Mate of mine with similar problem to you went to look at a Boxford today. It had come from a school. It was OK tooling wise but was an old knacker in other respects. Strangely he described it’s drive to me and it sounded like a variator type unit a la Colchester Chipmaster.

I think that a lot of lathes advertised for private sale are like this. They are sold by people who don’t know what they have. Whereas the likes of us who have good machines and tooling don’t sell them.

So I guess what I’m saying is what I said to him. You’ll never get a decent tooled machine for not much money. Save the ackers a bit more and buy from a reputable dealer. There are some good machines on Quillstar just now. Including Myfords if that does it for you. No connection.

[john evans 13Participant @johnevans13]

Yes it is difficult but I honestly have no intention of breaking the budget. I can get by with what I have if need be as it is not as bad as I portray.It can still turn accurately with care and time. In fact I used it today on a 275mm bar. The taper was 0003 end to end.Certainly good enough for what I needed.

I had set my heart on a bigger machine but will not worry if I fail to find one.

Thank you for the advice imparted so far. I can use a lathe etc but do not frequent hobby sites etc so the info on suppliers etc has been invaluable.

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

That’s top notch turning in anyone’s book!

[john evans 13Participant @johnevans13]

Thanks Carl

What I failed to say was that it took 1.5hrs and used a copper alloy. The cut was only .75mm.

This is the cruz of my problem.Cuts have to be shallow and taken in steps. If I use Bms it will take longer and cgatter will occur. Stainless is ok to machine.

Looking at the chester 920 which is a logical upgrade I feel the minimum speed is too high,the 7/8 drop to 50 but are just bigger versions of my tiddler.

I will keep looking. Thanks again.

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