2.05mm or #45?

Advert

2.05mm or #45?

Home Forums Workshop Tools and Tooling 2.05mm or #45?

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 27 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #385436
    Vic
    Participant
      @vic

      I tried to buy a pack of 2.05mm drill bits on eBay as I snapped my second to last one the other day. I only got a couple of hits and they were silly money like £8 each plus postage from Germany. I double checked the required tapping drill for an M2.5 thread and I actually got two answers online – 2.05mm and #45 which appears to be 2.0828mm. I searched eBay for #45 drill bits and got lots more hits so I bought a pack of 10 #45 for about a fiver inc postage. Which is right though and will it make much difference?

      Advert
      #19166
      Vic
      Participant
        @vic
        #385438
        Brian Wood
        Participant
          @brianwood45127

          Vic,

          For that size I think the slightly larger drill would be the better choice with less likelihood of tap breakage. The difference isn't much admittedly, but these are the sort of sizes where 'every little helps'

          Regards

          Brian

          #385439
          JasonB
          Moderator
            @jasonb

            2.1mm does for me when tapping M2.5

            At a fiver for 10 bits you will be lucky if they cut spot on size anyway.

            Edited By JasonB on 13/12/2018 12:28:01

            #385445
            Bazyle
            Participant
              @bazyle

              Measure the hole and if it is 2.0829mm send it back devil

              #385449
              Vic
              Participant
                @vic

                That’s what I was hoping Brian, thanks. yes

                The bits are ground Cobalt HSS from RDG so I’m hoping they’re reasonably sized. To be honest though I’ve measured top brand drill bits with a micrometer before and they often differ a little from the size marked for some reason.

                #385451
                geoff adams
                Participant
                  @geoffadams14047

                  try uk drills i use them all the time very helpful if you ring still have to order through ebay i wanted i think 5.7 mm not listed on ebay one phone call not a problem order 5.6 and will send out 5.7 and thats what i got

                  Geoff

                  #385453
                  not done it yet
                  Participant
                    @notdoneityet
                    Posted by Bazyle on 13/12/2018 13:13:45:

                    Measure the hole and if it is 2.0829mm send it back devil

                    What’s the postage for sending a hole anywhere?wink

                    #385454
                    Brian Wood
                    Participant
                      @brianwood45127

                      Vic,

                      That is known as supplying within the tolerance band.

                      No process on earth, real or imagined, will produce anything dead on theoretical size 100% of the time, it couldn't afford to and hold to a price people will pay.

                      Bazyle just now touched on the absurdity of expecting such perfection. Jason's experience confirms that perfectly good results can be had without being unrealistic or dogmatic about the preparation. You may be paying a premium price for your new drills, treat them with care. They will be just as prone to breakage as more bog standard versions I'm sorry to say. The final hole size will in any case depend on how they have been sharpened. I have experienced things as useless as sharpened nails!

                      Regards

                      Brian

                      #385456
                      Chris Trice
                      Participant
                        @christrice43267

                        Drills are ground fractionally undersize because they tend to drill oversize. The plain shanks are definitely slightly undersize.

                        #385464
                        Lambton
                        Participant
                          @lambton

                          Vic,

                          Despite what is printed in Zeus or similar tables here is not a "correct" single tapping size for any thread. There is a range of tapping sizes for any particular thread and the one to be chosen depends on a number of considerations such as the material being tapped, the application of the fastening, dimensions of the male thread etc. Tapping sizes in such tables are usually based on providing 70% thread engagement suitable for "general engineering".

                          I recommend anyone who wants to know how to select which tapping size to use should buy a copy of Drills, Taps and Dies by Tubal Cain (Workshop Practice series No 12). This has extensive tables showing the range of suitable tapping drills together with the % engagement for each. There is whole chapter (8 page 62) on selecting tapping drills.

                          Eric

                          #385468
                          Vic
                          Participant
                            @vic

                            I was aware of the percentage engagement idea but generally stick with the normal recommendation. Thanks for that though Eric, I think that’s a good idea. I’ll take a look. yes

                            #385475
                            HOWARDT
                            Participant
                              @howardt

                              I always, for metric taps. take the pitch from the diameter and round to the nearest 0.1mm. Then drill and tap the hole in the same material but not the finished part to test. When I used to design tooling if the bought tools, and we could be talking of 100's, didn't cut to size they were sent back to wherever they came from to be re-ground.

                              #385484
                              larry phelan 1
                              Participant
                                @larryphelan1

                                + For UK Drills,Bought many drills from them.

                                Good prices,good service,and no silly delivery costs !

                                What more could you want ?

                                #385489
                                Vic
                                Participant
                                  @vic

                                  Posted by larry phelan 1 on 13/12/2018 15:52:25:

                                  + For UK Drills,Bought many drills from them.

                                  Good prices,good service,and no silly delivery costs !

                                  What more could you want ?

                                  Same here but they don’t list a 2.05 drill that I could find on their website, and certainly not on eBay where they do free postage.

                                  #385495
                                  jimmy b
                                  Participant
                                    @jimmyb

                                    actual minor for M2.5 is 2.013mm to 2.138mm

                                    Ø2.1 would be my choice

                                    Jim

                                    #385501
                                    Howard Lewis
                                    Participant
                                      @howardlewis46836

                                      If one cutting edge is slightly longer than the other, the drill will cut oversize.

                                      The drills used by C A V to drill holes in Injector sacs were sized by drilling a hole and measuring the hole with wires, rather than measuring the drill.

                                      A slight difference in % thread engagement, because a drill produces a hole marginally oversize, is unlikely to caused much of a problem.

                                      A nominal 2.00mm drill may well provide the 2.05 mm diameter hole for which you yearn. Maybe even the 2.1mm for slightly reduced engagement and reduced risk of tap breakage.

                                      Howard

                                      .

                                      #385540
                                      speelwerk
                                      Participant
                                        @speelwerk

                                        No doubt it will differ from drill to drill but I have the impression that with these smaller sizes, if you first use a drill 0.1 mm undersize and than finish with the size you actually want, it gives you a hole diameter closer to the nominal. Niko.

                                        #385544
                                        Enough!
                                        Participant
                                          @enough

                                          Get the Workshop Practice Series "Drills, Taps and Dies" by Tubal Cain and read it from cover-to-cover like a novel.

                                          In particular, look at the tap-drill tables at the end of the book. It will tell you why your #45 will make essentially zero difference (and why) …. other than making the tapping slightly easier if it's noticeable …. plus the book will give you scads more useful information.

                                          Edited By Bandersnatch on 13/12/2018 22:07:58

                                          #385547
                                          not done it yet
                                          Participant
                                            @notdoneityet
                                            Posted by speelwerk on 13/12/2018 21:37:34:

                                            No doubt it will differ from drill to drill but I have the impression that with these smaller sizes, if you first use a drill 0.1 mm undersize and than finish with the size you actually want, it gives you a hole diameter closer to the nominal. Niko.

                                            That is entirely logical if the cutting edges of the first drill are of slightly different length – the finishing drill point doesn’t need to follow the centre of the hole and be thwarted by the point being non-concentric to the drill (like the original drill might be). So OK as long as the drill flutes are the nominal size.

                                            #385553
                                            Vic
                                            Participant
                                              @vic

                                              Posted by speelwerk on 13/12/2018 21:37:34:

                                              No doubt it will differ from drill to drill but I have the impression that with these smaller sizes, if you first use a drill 0.1 mm undersize and than finish with the size you actually want, it gives you a hole diameter closer to the nominal. Niko.

                                              Yes that makes sense. I’ve not had any problems though with the 2.05mm drill I’d been using until I snapped it! laugh

                                              #385556
                                              Bazyle
                                              Participant
                                                @bazyle
                                                Posted by Vic on 13/12/2018 22:59:14:

                                                Yes that makes sense. I’ve not had any problems though with the 2.05mm drill I’d been using until I snapped it! laugh

                                                Can't you regrind the remains on the shank and/or sit the broken off bit into a holder?

                                                #385560
                                                Hopper
                                                Participant
                                                  @hopper

                                                  Tubal Cain's chart in ME Handbook recommends 2.2mm drill for 2.5mm thread.

                                                  #385823
                                                  Vic
                                                  Participant
                                                    @vic

                                                    I’ve ordered the Workshop Practice book.

                                                    The drill bits arrived today. I wouldn’t normally measure them but I did today just for you guys. laugh they were:

                                                    2.05 1

                                                    2.06 2

                                                    2.07 4

                                                    2.075 1

                                                    2.08 2

                                                    So any of them will do. I measured one of them with a M&W mic and also with a Mitutyo so I’m reasonably confident of shank size. How well they’re sharpened is another matter but I’m sure they’ll be fine.

                                                    #385869
                                                    Hopper
                                                    Participant
                                                      @hopper

                                                      Posted by Vic on 15/12/2018 18:39:16:…

                                                      …so I’m reasonably confident of shank size. …

                                                      No point in measuring shank size. The shank, and first parts of the flutes, are made to be smaller diameter than the tip, for clearance. Maybe more meaningful to measure the tip diameter. But the size of hole depends also on how the tip is sharpened. If it's a bit off-centre, the resulting hole will be slightly larger than the tip diameter, as is usually the case.

                                                    Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 27 total)
                                                    • Please log in to reply to this topic. Registering is free and easy using the links on the menu at the top of this page.

                                                    Advert

                                                    Latest Replies

                                                    Viewing 25 topics - 1 through 25 (of 25 total)
                                                    Viewing 25 topics - 1 through 25 (of 25 total)

                                                    View full reply list.

                                                    Advert

                                                    Newsletter Sign-up