A question about pulleys.

A question about pulleys.

Home Forums Beginners questions A question about pulleys.

Viewing 19 posts - 1 through 19 (of 19 total)
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  • #155604
    Robin Graham
    Participant
      @robingraham42208

      Hi. An acquaintance has presented me with a thing labelled "Clarke Motor". This is a 1475 rpm motor coupled to a "headstock spindle" via four-step pulleys on the motor and driven shafts. The whole thing is enclosed in a pressed steel A-shaped enclosure. He wants to get the driven shaft down from its present minimum of 850rpm to around 180. So abount 8:1 reduction from the motor speed. My question is this: given that the maximum (rim, not PCD) diameter pulley that can be accommodated on the output shaft without modifying the enclosure is 100mm, can this be done in one stage, and if so what belt profile would be best? There is almost no torque requirement I guess – he just wants to run an embossing wheel (think single wheel knurler) round leather-hard clay mounted on the output shaft. I think there would be room in the enclosure for a countershaft if necessary, but I'd rather keep it simple if pos.

      Regards, Bob

      #7202
      Robin Graham
      Participant
        @robingraham42208
        #155606
        John Haine
        Participant
          @johnhaine32865

          You obviously need a motor pulley about 12.5 mm diameter and will need a flat belt. Pulleys could have slightly convex profiles to help keep the belt on. There are suppliers around of flat belting, I remember I bought one from somewhere in Suffolk for an Aciera F1 miller I used to have. Look for Anglo Swiss Machine Tools who I think pointed me at the supplier.

          #155608
          Michael Gilligan
          Participant
            @michaelgilligan61133

            Robin,

            This is just crying out for a PolyVee conversion.

            … as compact as flat belts, but better transmission.

            You should find several threads about them on the forum.

            MichaelG.

            .

            Edit: Various spellings … but this should give you a good start.

            Edited By Michael Gilligan on 17/06/2014 23:13:34

            #155619
            Les Jones 1
            Participant
              @lesjones1

              Hi Robin,
              Some further comments on Michael's PolyVee suggestion. Most washing machines seem to use this method for a very high reduction ratio. The end of the motor shaft is machined with the polyvee grooves but the large plastic pulley on the back of the drum is flat. (Or possibly slightly domed.) You could machine the motor shaft or cut the end off an old washing machine motor.

              Les.

              #155625
              Michael Gilligan
              Participant
                @michaelgilligan61133

                Robin,

                As an example of the reduction ratios that can be achieved in a compact space … have a look at this Wood Lathe.

                MichaelG.

                #155628
                jason udall
                Participant
                  @jasonudall57142

                  If little torque required..why not try a dimmer as speed control to motor..

                  #155631
                  Bob Brown 1
                  Participant
                    @bobbrown1

                    There is a minimum diameter that all belts can run and in this case you will not be able to get to 180rpm in one hit, it will need a counter shaft. The minimum diameter for a Polly Vee "PJ" belt is 20mm, if you had that driving a 100mm pulley the best you'll get is close to 300 rpm. If you install a countershaft and go for 4:1 on each run you effectively have a ratio of 8:1 which will give you around 184 rpm.

                    Or you could use toothed belts which is a relatively low cost option see **LINK**

                    Bob

                    #155635
                    Bazyle
                    Participant
                      @bazyle

                      Try just friction drive with pram wheel onto shaft. The application probably doesn't matter if it slips when overloaded.

                      #155642
                      Anonymous

                        I was under the impression that a reduction of 4, followed by another reduction of 4, gave an overall reduction of 16, not 8?

                        Andrew

                        #155645
                        Bob Brown 1
                        Participant
                          @bobbrown1

                          Andrew

                          you are correct should have been 4:1 then 2:1

                          #155652
                          Michael Gilligan
                          Participant
                            @michaelgilligan61133
                            Posted by Bob Brown 1 on 18/06/2014 09:14:31:

                            There is a minimum diameter that all belts can run and in this case you will not be able to get to 180rpm in one hit, it will need a counter shaft. The minimum diameter for a Polly Vee "PJ" belt is 20mm

                            .

                            Bob,

                            Only partly true …

                            PH section belts are aso available.

                            MichaelG.

                            #155655
                            Michael Gilligan
                            Participant
                              @michaelgilligan61133
                              Posted by Michael Gilligan on 18/06/2014 11:51:36:

                              PH section belts are aso available.

                              .

                              Here is a useful summary of the specification.

                              MichaelG.

                              #155657
                              Bob Brown 1
                              Participant
                                @bobbrown1

                                PH minimal pulley diameter is 13mm which you could get away with if you increase the diameter of the driven wheel slightly (+ 4mm) but best of luck finding a suitable belt or pulleys as not that common, hence the reason for PJ profile and it all depends on the power requirements.

                                #155658
                                Michael Gilligan
                                Participant
                                  @michaelgilligan61133
                                  Posted by Robin Graham on 17/06/2014 22:30:29:

                                  … There is almost no torque requirement I guess – he just wants to run an embossing wheel (think single wheel knurler) round leather-hard clay mounted on the output shaft.

                                  yes

                                  #155662
                                  Neil Wyatt
                                  Moderator
                                    @neilwyatt

                                    For such a non-critical application use a hoover belt which can wrap around a pulley only 1/4" diameter if you need it too. I fitted enough of these to hoovers in my youth. Available from your nearest market for pence.

                                    Neil

                                    #155687
                                    Robin Graham
                                    Participant
                                      @robingraham42208

                                      Thanks for all the suggestions / comments. I had read somewhere that there was a minimum diameter for pulleys, but didn't hunt for 'official' data because I thought they would probably apply to situations where torque transfer is an issue, which it really isn't in this case – hence asking here for more 'what you can get away' figures. Inspired by Neil's remembering of his Hoover belt fitting youth (I'd forgotten about those things) I've had a look at a defunct Dyson which I got off Freegle 'for parts'. The cleaning brush is driven by a half-inch flat rubber belt direct from the motor shaft and is the right sort of length (it's quite stretchy), so I'm going to give that approach a go because it's cheap and simple to do. If it doesn't work, not much lost, and I' ll do it properly with a countershaft. A subsidiary question though – am I right in thinking that for a flat belt transmission the crown should be on one wheel only? I imagine that if both are crowned, and they aren't perfectly aligned, they will fight for control.

                                      Jason, if it would work, the dimmer switch idea would be ideal, but as this an induction motor (I should have said that ) I think it won't.

                                      Bazyle, the friction drive idea had occurred to me but because the input/output shaft distance is 130mm (should have said that too!) it doesn't add up within the space constraints. Thanks anyway – it would have been a neat solution.

                                      Regards, Rob.

                                      #155708
                                      Neil Wyatt
                                      Moderator
                                        @neilwyatt

                                        Hoovers used to use round belts running in a grooved pulley, I recall the driving (motor) shaft used to have well-spaced flanges but I may be wrong. On the Dyson the larger, driven, pulley is crowned but has flanges just in case (probably to make sure the consumer fits the belt in the right place!)

                                        The Hoover type belts are MUCH better, they typically last years, I've got through two Dyson belts in a week as if there's a jam up they melt though in seconds. Don't get me on to the world-beating design features of Dyson vacuum cleaners, suffice to say my Mum's hoover in the '90s dated from the '60s, but…

                                        That said, if your arrangement is unlikely to ever stall,the Dyson belt should be OK

                                        Neil

                                        Edited By Neil Wyatt on 19/06/2014 08:46:54

                                        #155720
                                        Ian S C
                                        Participant
                                          @iansc

                                          You can get heat joinable flat plastic belting, in a number of sizes. Think you might find flat belts are often used on machines such as tool post grinders.

                                          I think the manufacturers of the heat join belts recommend that you give them the dimensions, and they will join it for you, it's a wee bit more complex than the round stuff. Ian S C

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