What am I?

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What am I?

This topic has 84 replies, 53 voices, and was last updated 28 November 2020 at 11:06 by Anonymous.

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24 November 2020 at 22:28 #509694
Jon Lawes
Participant
@jonlawes51698
I've worked in engineering all my life, primarily aircraft. I've been a model engineer for a few years, but I confess I have no qualifications other than an MoD apprenticeship.

When discussing hobbies with a colleague I said I was a model engineer. He then pointedly told me that I wasn't any sort of engineer as to be called an engineer I would have had to go to university, or be chartered in some way.

All my working life I thought I was an engineer (it was in my job title a few times), but it turns out I was misled.

So what am I?

Edited By Jon Lawes on 24/11/2020 22:28:42
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24 November 2020 at 22:28 #36168
Jon Lawes
Participant
@jonlawes51698
24 November 2020 at 22:39 #509696
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
You are an engineer, John

… arguably not an ‘Engineer’ but certainly an engineer.

MichaelG.
24 November 2020 at 22:45 #509697
Nicholas Farr
Participant
@nicholasfarr14254
Hi Jon, sounds like you are an engineer to me, whatever your colleague says. I was a maintenance engineer for the most part of my working life and I was just classed as a engineer in the last job I had and I've never even stepped into a university let alone attending one.

Regards Nick.
24 November 2020 at 22:46 #509699
Martin Kyte
Participant
@martinkyte99762
You are an engineer, just not a chartered one.

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck . . . . .

The UK has always had a problem with engineers being under-respected and one of the periodic responses to this is to push mebership of one of the Engineering Institutes. I did an HND followed up by CEI Part2 (honours degree equivalent) which at that time got me associate membership of the IEE usually followed after a few years by full membership. In the end I let my membership lapse as I wasn't really getting anything for the yearly fee apart from the magazine. I can't say I have every really missed it.

regards Martin
24 November 2020 at 22:49 #509701
blowlamp
Participant
@blowlamp
Jon.

Tell your 'friend' you identify as a transgender model engineer – He won't be able to doubt then.

Martin.

Edited By blowlamp on 24/11/2020 22:49:54

Edited By blowlamp on 24/11/2020 22:51:52
24 November 2020 at 22:58 #509703
Ramon Wilson
Participant
@ramonwilson3
You stick to your guns Jon – that colleague of yours is doing you and many others a dis- service. If you can only be an 'engineer' by being non artisan then it doesn't say much for most of 'us' does it.

' Course he could just be winding you up

From a non academic but active 'model' engineer – Ol' Tug
24 November 2020 at 23:08 #509704
Andrew Tinsley
Participant
@andrewtinsley63637
Not impressed by chartered status. I became a chartered engineer early in my career. It was the easiest qualification I ever obtained. So unimpressed by it, that I resigned after a year or two Thought I could spend the annual fees on something more useful!

Engineers are way underrated in this country and there seems to be a holier than though attitude by quite a few C Engs !

Andrew.
24 November 2020 at 23:12 #509705
mechman48
Participant
@mechman48
In one sense it was correct but those days are long gone. Engineer is a generic term used these days; I never went to uni but have worked in the field as an 'engineer' after being promoted into the role, with all the associated responsibilties, in the Middle east, I don't have a degree just HNC.There are many roles that use the title; auto engineer, computor engineer etc, these can be likened to car mechanic, IT specialist, a plumber is often called a 'heating engineer' I suppose in the realms of having the experience a house wife can be called a domestic engineer, A drain cleaner 'sewage engineer'

Nurses these days are expected to get a degree to carry out straight forward nursing,so do we now call them 'Nursing engineers' when back in my youth all they needed to be was SEN & SRN. My progression titles through the business was Apprentice fitter/ turner, journeyman, plant fitter, Marine Engineer ( Jnr & 4th, didn't need a degree for that job ) Maintenance Technician, Snr Specialist Machinist, gas turbine engineer etc. so as far as job titles go.. how long is a piece of string ?. At the end of the day if a Co. advertises a role as '******* engineer' & someone turns up with the best suitabilty / experience for the job, be it he/she is/was a fitter/electrician,technician then in my experience they can be called ***** Engineer

George.
24 November 2020 at 23:33 #509706
V8Eng
Participant
@v8eng
Well the guy who comes in the the big tanker to empty our sewerage tanks is an Engineer, so appointment email informs me anyway.

Edited By V8Eng on 24/11/2020 23:34:18
24 November 2020 at 23:33 #509707
Pete Rimmer
Participant
@peterimmer30576
You are what you think you are Jon.

Your small-minded colleague sounds like a person with no imagination and precious little charm.
24 November 2020 at 23:38 #509708
Ady1
Participant
@ady1
An engineer is different things at different times

In the 30s and 40s an engineer would make his own spares from bar stock etc

The engineers I sailed with in the 70s and 80s were spare parts fitters, no-spares meant object-not-working even if a lathe and 2 tons of bar stock were 6 feet away

Modern engineering tends to be more academic than the engineers of yore

It's such a massive subject, a chap who makes his own small castings and engines has engineering skills while an academic with no such ability could be a fabulous engineering designer

The dictionary has a good description

a person who designs, builds, or maintains engines, machines, or structures.
25 November 2020 at 02:21 #509713
Jon Lawes
Participant
@jonlawes51698
Its an interesting range of opinions, broadly in line with mine!

I think the engineer/Engineer comparison is an interesting one. I can live with being an engineer (lower case e). When I step out of the workshop covered in swarf and oil, smiling at my amateur efforts, I certainly feel like an engineer.

Thanks all
25 November 2020 at 07:39 #509719
Clive Hartland
Participant
@clivehartland94829
If you have the ability then you are an Artisan, the high falutin so called engineers with degrees and qualifications are hard put to fix things so pass it down to the Artisan.
25 November 2020 at 07:49 #509720
Old School
Participant
@oldschool
According to my local ME club I am not a model engineer because I don’t make and run steam loco’s. But my father was a working clockmaker who made his living making clocks said I was an engineer.
25 November 2020 at 08:01 #509721
Brian H
Participant
@brianh50089
I'm not aware that Brunel, the Stevensons or Henry Ford went to university!

Brian
25 November 2020 at 08:14 #509722
Roderick Jenkins
Participant
@roderickjenkins93242
Jon,

I'd stick with the Model Engineer description which I'm sure is applicable in your case

"Model" from the Cambridge Dictionary online: "Someone or something that is an extremely good example of its type"

Stay well,

Rod
25 November 2020 at 08:16 #509723
Tony Pratt 1
Participant
@tonypratt1
'When discussing hobbies with a colleague I said I was a model engineer. He then pointedly told me that I wasn't any sort of engineer as to be called an engineer I would have had to go to university, or be chartered in some way.'

That's just his misinformed opinion.

Tony
25 November 2020 at 08:34 #509724
Bazyle
Participant
@bazyle
Does your method of earning your income define you or your hobby? For most of the population their hobby is going to the pub and watchig football on TV. What are they?
25 November 2020 at 09:21 #509726
Swarf, Mostly!
Participant
@swarfmostly
Hi there, all,

Either Rolls or Royce (not the financial partner) denied being an 'engineer' – he claimed to be a 'mechanic'.

By the way, I think that in the UK it's an 'Institution' not an 'Institute'. If that matters.

And don't get me going about non-technical managers preferring the advice of an inexperienced colleague with a degree over mine based on lots of experience plus a degree-less C.Eng.!

Best regards,

Swarf, Mostly!

P.S.: Eventually B.Sc. (Hons) Open!!!!!!!
25 November 2020 at 09:22 #509728
larry phelan 1
Participant
@larryphelan1
Dont know where I fit in ????

Many people have told me what they think I am, but I dont recall any mention of Engineer or engineer !!

But then, when they bring me something to repair, it,s a different story !

So, I dont mind what others say about me, as long as it,s true !!
25 November 2020 at 09:44 #509736
Mick B1
Participant
@mickb1
Posted by Pete Rimmer on 24/11/2020 23:33:38:

You are what you think you are Jon.

Your small-minded colleague sounds like a person with no imagination and precious little charm.

Quite right. Paper qualifications have only the most casual relationship with actual capability to do the job.
25 November 2020 at 10:01 #509739
Martin Connelly
Participant
@martinconnelly55370
The origin of the word engineer is the same as ingenious. As I understand it to be an engineer is to be ingenious. Some countries do require a degree for someone to call themselves an engineer. I think in Germany they add Ing to their name if they are a qualified engineer.

So in the UK if you are ingenious you can call yourself an engineer. If you have passed exams and have a certificate I suppose you could call yourself a qualified engineer.

Martin C
25 November 2020 at 10:07 #509741
Samsaranda
Participant
@samsaranda
Our society has changed its values over the years, nowadays there is a government push to put as many youngsters as possible through “University”. This means we have nursing staff who spend time at university and all sorts of other trades now have university degrees, I have a cynical thought that it could be a political ploy to change the real scope of youth unemployment, if the youngsters are at uni for three years when they leave and join the labour market if they are unemployed then they figure as adult unemployed and youth unemployment, that is 17’s plus, is a considerably smaller figure. in respect of whether you are a real Engineer without a uni degree then my opinion is that this a form of snobbery practised by some. I was for a while registered as an “Engineering Technician” entitled to use the the letters Eng Tech after my name, this came about purely because of my work experience as an Engineer and the quality of training courses that I completed during employment, no uni degree. Having a uni degree doesn’t make you an Engineer as I have met many so called Engineers, with degrees, that didn’t know which end of a spanner to hold. If you work with any form of engineering in my book you have the right to use the designation of Engineer.

Dave W
25 November 2020 at 10:07 #509742
Nick Wheeler
Participant
@nickwheeler
Posted by Swarf, Mostly! on 25/11/2020 09:21:48:

Hi there, all,

Either Rolls or Royce (not the financial partner) denied being an 'engineer' – he claimed to be a 'mechanic'.

Rolls was the 'financial partner', although Henry Royce was already a successful, wealthy businessman.

The traditional definition of mechanic was someone who builds, maintains and repairs machinery, which is a better description of what many model-engineers do. Engineer added 'designs' to that list and usually implied some sort of qualification.

The problem is that meanings in English creep, and so we end up with words being applied willy-nilly and all useful definition is lost. Calling the man who empties a septic tank a 'Sanitation Engineer' is a good example.
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